Law US 2020 census will be printed without citizenship question -

Should we know the number of illegals in America?

  • Yes

    Votes: 128 82.1%
  • No

    Votes: 2 1.3%
  • Orange Man Bad

    Votes: 26 16.7%

  • Total voters
    156
I mean, it's entirely possible to like Trump for one reason and dislike for another.

For example, one can like him for the vast quantities of purestrain liberal tears he harvests with every word. On the other hand, they would like it if he could do something about the social erosion.
That would be wonderful but aside from fostering good domestic conditions what can the president do about it? Especially with a hostile press?
Remember he also wants to be reelected, really needs to be to do the policy stuff he wants.

I don't know that "social erosion" can be fixed from above. I know people blame Obama for it, I personally didn't see it that way. I suppose he did fund a lot of social justice propaganda though...
 

Freedom Fries

kiwifarms.net
That would be wonderful but aside from fostering good domestic conditions what can the president do about it? Especially with a hostile press?
Remember he also wants to be reelected, really needs to be to do the policy stuff he wants.

I don't know that "social erosion" can be fixed from above. I know people blame Obama for it, I personally didn't see it that way. I suppose he did fund a lot of social justice propaganda though...
He could, IDK, not have major important planks of his policy position be thwarted by deadlines we all knew were coming months if not years before, not cave on all of his threats within a week of making them, plan ahead for obstruction and have a game plan to try and steamroll it, push very reasonable legislation like mandatory e-verify from the bully pulpit, actually have the deportation raids he keeps threatening but isn't doing as a matter of normal business for no apparent reason, direct the DOJ to trustbust and go after anti-male university stuff with title IX... stuff like that. Ok, so they want the government funded and won't give you a wall? How about mandatory e-verify at least.
 
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Mariposa Electrique

In 2021, Shit will hit the fan 4 Chris
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Our last governor race Gregg Abbot A FUCKING WHITE MALE ran against a literal fucking Lesbian Abuela.

He still beat her by 13.3% and 1.1 million votes.
View attachment 826279View attachment 826278
Would you actually trust someone who should be scrubbing your toilets? This was a race leftist must have been salivating over. Who do you root for, Lupe 'wetback' Valdez or the gimp?
 

Sīn the Moon Daddy

T-808
kiwifarms.net
He could, IDK, not have major important planks of his policy position be thwarted by deadlines we all knew were coming months if not years before, not cave on all of his threats within a week of making them, plan ahead for obstruction and have a game plan to try and steamroll it, push very reasonable legislation like mandatory e-verify from the bully pulpit, actually have the deportation raids he keeps threatening but isn't doing as a matter of normal business for no apparent reason, direct the DOJ to trustbust and go after anti-male university stuff with title IX... stuff like that. Ok, so they want the government funded and won't give you a wall? How about mandatory e-verify at least.
He's doing everything he's supposed to be doing. Trump is there to pack the courts, not fulfill campaign promises. Frankly he's doing a bang up job and I might vote for him this time
 

Freedom Fries

kiwifarms.net
He's doing everything he's supposed to be doing. Trump is there to pack the courts, not fulfill campaign promises. Frankly he's doing a bang up job and I might vote for him this time
I get that this is more on the senate, but how is that federal bench backlog coming? Seems a bit slow if that's your primary goal.
 

Ped Xing

!Bigfoot! sightings please call 908-314-7784
kiwifarms.net
Correct me if I am wrong, but states get the same number of electors as they do senators plus congressmen right? This favors smaller states because senators are leveled out at 2. Several states even have the minimum of 3. Small (population wise) states have a tendency to be red so long as they aren't in New England. It would be foolish for conservatives to sign on to abolition of the electoral college. Having the electors be split proportionally by each state is the choice of each state. As a state goes purple, it could be in either party's best interest to advocate for the proportional split (but that is that state alone's business).

A better strategy is to mock blue states signing on to the whole "popular vote" elector pledge thing by not putting their money where their mouth is by assigning electors proportionally.
Am I speaking Swahili? I'm talking about assigning electoral college votes proportionally instead of all-or-nothing. Do that, and little states like New England, Maryland, Delaware, and the cubes DO get a boost in importance, rather than all the focus being on wooing an extra 1 percent in Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.

I'm not talking about abolishing the electoral college. I'm talking about something that doesn't even technically require any new laws to be passed at all, though a few states do have laws requiring electors to vote as I suggest.

Whether conservatives have an advantage in THAT system is debatable, but under the current system the advantage is random and determined by hanging chads in Florida; that cannot be the intention of the institution.
 
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Antique Rice

kiwifarms.net
I think fox is trying to get those two hispanic marines who were assaulted by antifa on Tucker and Hannity.

We could see the leap in logic where Hispanics and anything mexican is deemed white supremacist by antifa and must be destroyed.

I mean you know what was invented in America? Tacos, burritos, and nachos.
They'll do them like they did Zimmerman and declare a new demographic identifier, white latino. That way they don't count as brown people and beating them up is "punching up."
 

It's HK-47

Meatbag's Bounty of Bodies
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Remarks by Attorney General William P. Barr on Census Citizenship Question

Washington, DC
Thursday, July 11, 2019

Thank you, Mr. President, and congratulations on today’s Executive Order, which will ensure that we finally have an accurate understanding of how many citizens and non-citizens live in our country.

As the Supreme Court recognized, it would be perfectly lawful for the federal government to ask on the census whether individuals are citizens of the United States. It is entirely reasonable to want to know how many citizens and non-citizens there are in the United States. In fact, the federal government has routinely asked questions related to citizenship dating back to the 1820s. But while the Supreme Court correctly recognized that it would be entirely appropriate to include a citizenship question on the census, it nevertheless held that the Commerce Department did not adequately explain its decision to do so for the 2020 decennial census.

Because as the Supreme Court recognized, the defect in Secretary Ross’s decision was curable with a better record, the President asked me to work with Secretary Ross to determine whether there remained any viable path for including a citizenship question on the 2020 census. I did so. In my view, the government has ample justification to inquire about citizenship status on the census and could plainly provide rationales for doing so that would satisfy the Supreme Court. There is thus no question that a new decision to add the question would ultimately survive legal review.

The problem is that any new decision would be subject to immediate challenge as a new claim in the three ongoing district court cases. In addition, there are injunctions currently in place that forbid adding the question. There is simply no way to litigate these issues and obtain relief from the current injunctions in time to implement any new decision without jeopardizing our ability to carry out the census itself, which we are not going to do. So, as a practical matter, the Supreme Court’s decision closed all paths to adding the question to the 2020 decennial census. Put simply, the impediment was logistical, not legal. We simply cannot complete the litigation in time to carry out the census, including appeals. (HK-47: This is the important part.)

One other point on this. Some in the media have been suggesting — in the hysterical mode of the day — that the Administration has been planning to add the citizenship question to the census by executive fiat without regard for contrary court orders or what the Supreme Court might say. This has been based on rank speculation and nothing more. As should be obvious, that was never under consideration. We have always accepted that a new decision to add a citizenship question to the census would be subject to judicial review.

Turning to today, I applaud the President for recognizing in his Executive Order that including a citizenship question on the census is not the only way to obtain this vital information. The course the President has chosen today will bring unprecedented resources to bear on determining how many citizens and non-citizens are in our country and will yield the best data the government has had on citizenship in many decades. That information will be useful for countless purposes, as the President explained in his remarks today. For example, there is a current dispute over whether illegal aliens can be included for apportionment purposes. Depending on the resolution of that dispute, this data may possibly prove relevant. We will be studying the issue.

Congratulations again, Mr. President, on taking this effective action.
Source

Aaaand Trump just signed an Executive Order to negate the citizenship question on the census and go for a more compiled system of accessing the requisite information through all other available departments. Nice try, though!
 
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Arctic Fox

Does it have to be so cold?
kiwifarms.net

President Trump, speaking at the White House on Thursday, announced that he would "immediately" issue an executive order to get an accurate count of non-citizens and citizens in the United States -- a measure Trump said would be "far more accurate" than relying on a citizenship question in the 2020 census.

The move would make use of "vast" federal databases and free up information sharing among all federal agencies concerning who they know is living in the country, Trump said.

"Today I'm here to say we are not backing down in our effort to determine the citizenship status of the United States population," the president told reporters in the Rose Garden, after slamming "far-left Democrats" seeking to "conceal the number of illegal aliens in our midst."

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS BRACE IN 10 CITIES ACROSS COUNTRY, AS ICE PLANS RENEWED DEPORATION RAIDS

"We will leave no stone unturned," Trump asserted. He called legal opposition to adding a citizenship question to the 2020 census "meritless," but said the ongoing judicial morass in several federal district courts made it logistically impossible to resolve the matter before the 2020 census forms needed to be printed.

Speaking after Trump, Attorney General Bill Barr said the information collected via the executive order could be useful in determining the makeup of the Electoral College and congressional apportionment.

That information will be used for countless purposes. For example, there is a current dispute over whether illegal aliens can be included for apportionment purposes. ... We will be studying this issue," Barr said.

Census counts -- which by law include illegal immigrants -- have been used to determine the allocation of seats in the House of Representatives for the next 10 years, the number of electors afforded each state in the Electoral College and the distribution of some $675 billion in federal spending.

The Census Bureau's own experts have said requiring information about citizenship would discourage illegal immigrants from participating and lead to a less accurate count. That, in turn, would redistribute money and political power away from many cities led by Democrats where immigrants tend to cluster.

HERE'S WHY THE UPCOMING IMMIGRATION RAIDS ARE BEING ANNOUNCED IN ADVANCE

Barr also agreed with Trump that the Supreme Court decision last month posed insurmountable "logistical" -- but not "legal" -- barriers to asking the citizenship question on the census. The government already has started the lengthy and expensive process of printing the census questionnaire without the question.

Additionally, Barr slammed media reports that the White House would issue an executive order in an attempt to illegally force a citizenship question on the census. "In the hysterical mode of the day," Barr said, media outlets speculated that Trump simply would add the question to the census unilaterally.

"This has never been under consideration," Barr said.

Many Democrats promptly characterized the president's move as a "retreat," and condemned the news conference. Others vowed to consider challenging the executive order in court.

"President Trump is so intent on intimidating communities of color that even when the courts and rule of law thwart him, he still tries to persist in his ham-handed ways," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said in a statement. "The president’s retreat on adding the misguided citizen question to the census was long overdue and is a significant victory for democracy and fair representation. Every person must be counted and no one should be intimidated by the president and his capricious behavior."

HOUSE DEMS PREPARE TO HOLD TRUMP, BARR IN CONTEMPT OVER CENSUS QUESTION

Trump had emphasized his exasperation at the situation earlier in the day at a White House conference focused on social media censorship of conservatives.

"We spend $20 billion on a census," Trump told attendees. "They go through houses, they go up, they ring doorbells, they talk to people. How many toilets do they have? How many desks do they have? How many beds? What's their roof made of? The only thing we can't ask is, are you a citizen of the United States. Isn't it the craziest thing?"

DOJ spokesperson Kerri Kupec told Fox News that Trump's "alternative path" ended the legal fight over the citizenship question.

"The Supreme Court held that Secretary Ross reasonably concluded that including the citizenship question on the 2020 decennial census would provide the most complete and accurate citizenship information, but it invalidated his decision to include that question on other grounds," Kupec said.

She added: "The Department of Justice disagrees with the Supreme Court’s decision. Today’s Executive Order represents an alternative path to collecting the best citizenship data now available, which is vital for informed policymaking and numerous other reasons. Accordingly, the Department will promptly inform the courts that the Government will not include a citizenship question on the 2020 decennial census."

Kristen Clarke, the executive director and president of the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, which has challenged the citizenship question in court, told Fox News she had "grave concerns about the administration’s continued dogged pursuit of citizenship information for what appear to be improper, discriminatory and unconstitutional uses."

"There simply was no legally sound basis that would have allowed President Trump to make an end run around the Supreme Court’s decision blocking the citizenship question on the Census," Clarke said. "By prolonging this battle, the administration has sowed chaos and confusion. ... We will use every tool in our arsenal to police the administration should their executive action violate constitutional or legally-protected rights."

The president had said last week that he was "very seriously" considering an executive order to try to force the citizenship question's inclusion.

Earlier Thursday, ABC News first reported that Trump would "back down" from his efforts to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census, and instead would "take executive action that instructs the Commerce Department to obtain an estimate of U.S. citizenship through other means."

Multiple sources confirmed that reporting to Fox News.

Trump's administration has faced numerous roadblocks to adding the question, beginning with the ruling by the Supreme Court temporarily barring its inclusion on the grounds that the government's justification was insufficient. The court challenged the reasoning given that the Justice Department wanted the question to better enforce the Voting Rights Act.

Chief Justice John Roberts joined the Supreme Court's four more liberal members in last month's decision and was openly skeptical about that justification.

A federal judge on Wednesday also rejected the Justice Department's plan to replace the legal team fighting for inclusion, a day after another federal judge in Manhattan issued a similar ruling, saying the government can't replace nine lawyers so late in the dispute without satisfactorily explaining why.

The Trump administration had given conflicting signals on the subject -- initially planning to print the census forms without the citizenship question and then renewing the push to include it.

Trump has offered several explanations for why he believed the question was necessary to include in the once-a-decade population count.

"You need it for Congress, for districting. You need it for appropriations. Where are the funds going? How many people are there? Are they citizens? Are they not citizens? You need it for many reasons," he told reporters last week.

Fox News' Bill Mears, John Roberts, Mike Emanuel, Ronn Blitzer and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
They really think non-citizens, who broke the law to swarm here and clog up all our taxfunded infrastructure, healthcare, and education, deserve the right to vote. That they should have all the benefits with none of the costs. Fuck these people.
 

mr.moon1488

kiwifarms.net
Ironically, them dragging their feet on this has made things a lot worse for them. For years now, you could do pretty much anything related to the government, while openly declaring yourself an illegal immigrant. Now that Trump wants to just pull the information from all other departments, and have it sent to the commerce department, a lot of illegal immigrants who could have just gotten by with selecting "no" on the census question, will now be detected because they registered for some kind of benefit as an illegal immigrant.
 
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