War US to let Turkish forces move into Syria, dumping Kurdish allies - White House reveals policy shift, which follows conversation between Trump and Erdoğan

What should the Kurds do?


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BR55

kiwifarms.net
If Trump pulls out, he will look very bad in the eyes of the world. I wish he would listen to the people who know how things really are instead of making decisions himself.
What pray tell are our options then Mr.Neocon?
Regime Change? Because taking out Saddam was a brilliant move that we are still reaping the rewards of.
Stay in Syria enforcing a separatist state for all eternity?
Fuck Syria and fuck what "the world" thinks.
America has the right to make decisions that in it's own interest.
And not wasting money, lives and time on futile attempts to fix everyones petty problems is most certainly in our own interests.
 
Last edited:

Shining Nova

Ronin Pony
kiwifarms.net
What pray tell are our options then Mr.Neocon?
Regime Change? Because taking out Saddam was a brilliant move that we are still reaping the rewards of.
Stay in Syria enforcing a separatist for all eternity?
Fuck Syria and fuck what "the world" thinks.
America has the right to make decisions that in it's own interest.
And not wasting money, lives and time on futile attempts to fix everyones petty problems is most certainly in our own interests.
The Kurds are our most steadfast allies, stabbing them in the back sends a message to the world that the US doesn't take its commitments seriously, we already have a history of doing that already we do not need more.
We aren't spending much money in Syria, the Kurds are the ones bearing the heat of the conflict.

You would care what the world thinks when you need their cooperation, if the US looks weak it makes our allies question our ability to defend them and that is exactly what people like Putin are looking for.

We have to stay in Syria, we are vital to the region. That is the burden that the US has to take for being a Superpower.

What I want to know is why you think pulling away from the rest of the world is a good idea?
 

It's HK-47

Meatbag's Bounty of Bodies
Supervisor
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The Kurds are our most steadfast allies, stabbing them in the back sends a message to the world that the US doesn't take its commitments seriously, we already have a history of doing that already we do not need more.
We aren't spending much money in Syria, the Kurds are the ones bearing the heat of the conflict.

You would care what the world thinks when you need their cooperation, if the US looks weak it makes our allies question our ability to defend them and that is exactly what people like Putin are looking for.

We have to stay in Syria, we are vital to the region. That is the burden that the US has to take for being a Superpower.

What I want to know is why you think pulling away from the rest of the world is a good idea?


WASHINGTON, D.C.—After Trump announced that US troops would be pulled out of Syria, the President was quickly criticized by leaders on both the left and the right for breaking with the longstanding American tradition of remaining in Middle Eastern countries indefinitely.

Trump drew ire from both sides of the aisle for his "careless and reckless" disregard for the beloved American custom of meddling overseas without a congressional declaration of war and then hanging around for another few decades.

"Occupying a country on the other side of the globe and staying there forever is an American pastime," said a CNN host. "For Trump to pull out when we haven't even been there a decade yet is a disgusting display of his selfishness and unwillingness to conform to the standards of presidential decorum."

"Has he no respect for our ways of life?" the host concluded gravely.

In a rare moment of unity, pundits on Fox News agreed. "We just need another 20 or 30 years in Syria, and we can accomplish our goals," said a morning host on the right-leaning news station. "He didn't even really give our soldiers a chance to settle in."

"This is America, for goodness' sake—land of the free and home of messing with other countries' affairs. I don't like criticizing the president, but he's way off on this one," he added.
 

BR55

kiwifarms.net
The Kurds are our most steadfast allies, stabbing them in the back sends a message to the world that the US doesn't take its commitments seriously, we already have a history of doing that already we do not need more.
We aren't spending much money in Syria, the Kurds are the ones bearing the heat of the conflict.

You would care what the world thinks when you need their cooperation, if the US looks weak it makes our allies question our ability to defend them and that is exactly what people like Putin are looking for.

We have to stay in Syria, we are vital to the region. That is the burden that the US has to take for being a Superpower.

What I want to know is why you think pulling away from the rest of the world is a good idea?
Here's a red pill for you.
Kurdistan will never exist as nation.
They want lands that belong to Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran.
Even if Rojava alone became independent it would be set upon and destroyed by those powers.
But apparently you think "supporting our steadfast allies" is worth sitting in Northern Syria until the heat death of the universe.
If the Kurd's were realistic in any way they just accept autonomy under Assad.
And as for our "message" to the world.
Who cares?
The world doesn't need a policeman or babysitter.
It's for the best for countries to just solve own problems again.
Maybe it leads to genocide or conquest but thats just the nature of human civilization.
People understood that for all of our history.
But now we have this utopian insanity that internationalism can somehow just come in and fix everything.
The Middle East is a result of constant warfare since literally the dawn of civilization.
Throw on top of that ethnic and religious strife and arbitrary borders drawn up by imperial dickheads a 100 years ago and you have a recipe for disaster.
The Middle East is unfixable especially by America.
The sooner we get that through our thick heads the better.
 

Erich Raeder

moon man moon man can't you see
kiwifarms.net
You know I stopped believing in the whole 4d chess meme that Trump has a really elaborate plan and is outsmarting his opponents a very long time ago.

But this? Let's dissect it. Trump is giving Erdogan green light to move against the Kurds. Sort of, because he kinda backpedals just hours later. Just enough to make the Turks unsure how to proceed and just enough to make the Kurds completely shit their pants. There are already rumors that the Kurds are negotiating with the Syrian government. They have to at this point. Imagine if they actually reconcile, it would effectively bring the Syrian Civil War within measurable distance of its end.

And what would be the implications for Trump in this case? He does not lose face with Turkey because he played nice with Erdogan. He would not necessarily lose face with the neocon warmongers in his own party. Practically everyone else thinks he's an idiot either way so it's not like he has anything to lose with them. The people who voted for him because of his isolationist policies will be glad he's trying to keep his promises.

This may just be a borderline genius move by Trump, if it does pan out like that. And even if he didn't plan any of it you would at the very least have to give it to the guy that he's a better president than pretty much anyone else in the GOP would be. By just throwing tantrums on Twitter all day.
 

Shining Nova

Ronin Pony
kiwifarms.net
Assad would not offer them autonomy. this is a man who gases his own people. You honestly believe a man like that would offer his enemies such a thing?

We promised our allies in the region that we would support them. Turning our backs on them will leave a deep seated mistrust in the region,destroying a partnership we spent years cultivating, and you want to throw that all away, making it even more difficult to fight insurgence. Our enemies will use this withdraw as a means to hurt our credibility. Just like people use Vietnam to criticize us commitments to this day.

I vote to stay in Syria, Trump should leave this to the professionals and focus on the economy
 

Erich Raeder

moon man moon man can't you see
kiwifarms.net
Assad would not offer them autonomy. this is a man who gases his own people. You honestly believe a man like that would offer his enemies such a thing?
*who gasses his own people, always without any tactical purpose and conveniently always when the whole world is looking after the army achieved a significant victory against al-Nusra and friends

FTFY
 

Freddy Freaker

Herald of the Superior Future
kiwifarms.net
*who gasses his own people, always without any tactical purpose and conveniently always when the whole world is looking after the army achieved a significant victory against al-Nusra and friends

FTFY
Forgot after every time Trump has announced we're leaving. Member when the white helmets did a mannequin challenge vid totally not to cover them being caught staging a scene?
 

Unog

You're a nog.
kiwifarms.net
We promised our allies in the region that we would support them. Turning our backs on them will leave a deep seated mistrust in the region,destroying a partnership we spent years cultivating,
Wow, that's a lot of shit that politicians did that the american people never asked for, and never wanted.

and you want to throw that all away, making it even more difficult to fight insurgence. Our enemies will use this withdraw as a means to hurt our credibility. Just like people use Vietnam to criticize us commitments to this day.
So? The world already hates the U.S., how would this change that, and more importantly why should we give a shit?
 

The best and greatest

kiwifarms.net
You know I stopped believing in the whole 4d chess meme that Trump has a really elaborate plan and is outsmarting his opponents a very long time ago.

But this? Let's dissect it. Trump is giving Erdogan green light to move against the Kurds. Sort of, because he kinda backpedals just hours later. Just enough to make the Turks unsure how to proceed and just enough to make the Kurds completely shit their pants. There are already rumors that the Kurds are negotiating with the Syrian government. They have to at this point. Imagine if they actually reconcile, it would effectively bring the Syrian Civil War within measurable distance of its end.

And what would be the implications for Trump in this case? He does not lose face with Turkey because he played nice with Erdogan. He would not necessarily lose face with the neocon warmongers in his own party. Practically everyone else thinks he's an idiot either way so it's not like he has anything to lose with them. The people who voted for him because of his isolationist policies will be glad he's trying to keep his promises.

This may just be a borderline genius move by Trump, if it does pan out like that. And even if he didn't plan any of it you would at the very least have to give it to the guy that he's a better president than pretty much anyone else in the GOP would be. By just throwing tantrums on Twitter all day.
I think that this is all more of a silver lining to Turkey invading Syria from the orthodox perspective, but otherwise yeah he seems to have hit upon a smart choice so far. Who do you think wins that anyway?
 

Shining Nova

Ronin Pony
kiwifarms.net
Wow, that's a lot of shit that politicians did that the american people never asked for, and never wanted.



So? The world already hates the U.S., how would this change that, and more importantly why should we give a shit?
We should care because a lot of people depend on our support and we need our allies cooperation to deal with ISIS and other militant groups.
 

Unog

You're a nog.
kiwifarms.net
We should care because a lot of people depend on our support
Not our problem.

and we need our allies cooperation to deal with ISIS and other militant groups.
Why the fuck is that? What the actual fuck is the purpose of shit like the N.S.A. and the D.H.S. then? Didn't the american public pretty much sacrifice the 4th amendment on the altar of "national security" so that we wouldn't have to worry about that shit domestically (I.E. the only place that should matter)?
 

Erich Raeder

moon man moon man can't you see
kiwifarms.net
I think that this is all more of a silver lining to Turkey invading Syria from the orthodox perspective, but otherwise yeah he seems to have hit upon a smart choice so far. Who do you think wins that anyway?
You mean who will win when Turkey invades? I would presume it depends on how much blood and money Turkey is willing to invest in this, but the Kurds have no air force so if Turkey really wants to invade all of northern Syria there is nothing they Kurds can do in the long run. Best they can hope for is a Vietnam-type situation where Turkey pulls out because of lack of popular support for a war and economic sanctions.
 

The best and greatest

kiwifarms.net
You mean who will win when Turkey invades? I would presume it depends on how much blood and money Turkey is willing to invest in this, but the Kurds have no air force so if Turkey really wants to invade all of northern Syria there is nothing they Kurds can do in the long run. Best they can hope for is a Vietnam-type situation where Turkey pulls out because of lack of popular support for a war and economic sanctions.
I mean in the event of a united Syria who wins?
 
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Shining Nova

Ronin Pony
kiwifarms.net
Not our problem.



Why the fuck is that? What the actual fuck is the purpose of shit like the N.S.A. and the D.H.S. then? Didn't the american public pretty much sacrifice the 4th amendment on the altar of "national security" so that we wouldn't have to worry about that shit domestically (I.E. the only place that should matter)?
Information does not come out of nowhere. Our allies share information with us.
We made a promise to our allies it hurts our credibility if we walk out on them, making it harder to get their support when we need it.

The US is deeply connected to the affairs of the world, they cannot withdraw.

I wish Trump could understand this.
 

Unog

You're a nog.
kiwifarms.net
Information does not come out of nowhere. Our allies share information with us.
Good, we're on the same page on that. We're already in Five Eyes so there's no need to give a fuck about these assholes.

We made a promise to our allies it hurts our credibility if we walk out on them, making it harder to get their support when we need it.

The US is deeply connected to the affairs of the world, they cannot withdraw.
The US has a shitty rep as it is. You're essentially telling a man who's a notorious rapist that he should watch out because people are starting to call him a liar.
 

Freddy Freaker

Herald of the Superior Future
kiwifarms.net
Information does not come out of nowhere. Our allies share information with us.
We made a promise to our allies it hurts our credibility if we walk out on them, making it harder to get their support when we need it.

The US is deeply connected to the affairs of the world, they cannot withdraw.

I wish Trump could understand this.
Hey remember when we invaded Iraq and the world bitched and moaned about how we needed to stop being the world police? What changed?
 
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