US vs China; Who wins and how? -

[Man Flavored Tofu]

What a lot of people overlook about a US vs China conflict is to overlook China's weaknesses.

US has serious problems both domestically and abroad, but nothing compared to the shitshow China has been for decades. China shares a lot of traits with the defunct USSR in a fondness for cutting corners on everything.

A great example is an automotive industry. Xi Jinping told mainland car manufacturers to stop relying on importing parts from aboard. Come to find out China can't make modern engines or complex components. China just buys the parts and assembles them. Apparently, CCP officials that ran the automotive industry would just funnel the money into their bank accounts and as a result, never invest in the next-gen manufacturing technologies. As of right now, car and processor manufacturing is more than ten years behind,

This is also the same country that created an AIDS machine by trying to cut the cost of blood donations by combining the blood of five people at once into a single machine, Whole villages became infected with AIDS and the CCP had to quietly end the program. This is the same country that makes up more than 18% of the human race but can only grow food on 10% of their country. This is also the next country other than Japan to have a serious issue with their population aging fast and collapsing their economy in less than fifty years.

My point is the US has some serious challenges but China would kill to have our problems right now. If the government hadn't come in with an iron fist like they did with COVID the CCP could have had a nationwide revolt if mass death and starvation took place. After Tiananmen Square, the CCP made a deal with the population to stay out of politics if they opened markets and let people get rich. Xi is trying to rewrite that deal by making the Chinese people think they are surrounded by enemies and only an asshole like Xi can save them.

Any country, especially one the size and power of China, could easily do a lot of damage if they went on a rampage. This whole century of China crap is completely overlooking their serious weaknesses. China is not setting itself to be the next superpower. China is turning into North Korea on steroids. They want to sell crap to Western powers to destroy their economies, steal food and energy from Africa and South America through predatory loans, and tax every ship that comes through the South China sea. While they do that China wants to expand its borders to give itself some breathing room.

China is dangerous but their attempts to be colonizers will be as halfassed as all their other schemes. Never underestimate the CCP's ability to fuck itself. One area that the Chinese excel at is their ability to survive and that does make them dangerous.

 

[BigTodd]

Tom counts every response here towards his delusions of grandeur where he's an established writer.

 

[The High Prophet of Truth]

Both the American and Chinese Armed Forces are embarrassing when you really look at them.
Also China doesn't need to fight us, they've got us by the balls just fine already.

 

[Mariposa Electrique]

Tom counts every response here towards his delusions of grandeur where he's an established writer.

And experience as a Hippie Historian. Whatever the fuck that means. Hippies don't care about history, they care about raping and getting high.

 

[mr.moon1488]

Israel because both countries can't help but make demon deals with them.

https://archive.md/ad9t8#selection-847.23-847.29

 

[Friendly Futa]

USA! USA! USA!

 

[Miss Tommie Jayne Wasserberg]

What a lot of people overlook about a US vs China conflict is to overlook China's weaknesses.

US has serious problems both domestically and abroad, but nothing compared to the shitshow China has been for decades. China shares a lot of traits with the defunct USSR in a fondness for cutting corners on everything.

A great example is an automotive industry. Xi Jinping told mainland car manufacturers to stop relying on importing parts from aboard. Come to find out China can't make modern engines or complex components. China just buys the parts and assembles them. Apparently, CCP officials that ran the automotive industry would just funnel the money into their bank accounts and as a result, never invest in the next-gen manufacturing technologies. As of right now, car and processor manufacturing is more than ten years behind,

This is also the same country that created an AIDS machine by trying to cut the cost of blood donations by combining the blood of five people at once into a single machine, Whole villages became infected with AIDS and the CCP had to quietly end the program. This is the same country that makes up more than 18% of the human race but can only grow food on 10% of their country. This is also the next country other than Japan to have a serious issue with their population aging fast and collapsing their economy in less than fifty years.

My point is the US has some serious challenges but China would kill to have our problems right now. If the government hadn't come in with an iron fist like they did with COVID the CCP could have had a nationwide revolt if mass death and starvation took place. After Tiananmen Square, the CCP made a deal with the population to stay out of politics if they opened markets and let people get rich. Xi is trying to rewrite that deal by making the Chinese people think they are surrounded by enemies and only an asshole like Xi can save them.

Any country, especially one the size and power of China, could easily do a lot of damage if they went on a rampage. This whole century of China crap is completely overlooking their serious weaknesses. China is not setting itself to be the next superpower. China is turning into North Korea on steroids. They want to sell crap to Western powers to destroy their economies, steal food and energy from Africa and South America through predatory loans, and tax every ship that comes through the South China sea. While they do that China wants to expand its borders to give itself some breathing room.

China is dangerous but their attempts to be colonizers will be as halfassed as all their other schemes. Never underestimate the CCP's ability to fuck itself. One area that the Chinese excel at is their ability to survive and that does make them dangerous.

This tells an interesting story. In general, Chinese people trust Beijing and mistrust the local authorities and Americans mistrust Washington while trusting the local authorities more.

Long-term survey reveals Chinese government satisfaction

Ash Center research team unveils findings from long-term public opinion survey.

news.harvard.edu

 

[Disheveled Human]

Eagle vs Dragon: How the U.S. and Chinese Navies Stack Up​

Eagle vs Dragon: How the U.S. and Chinese Navies Stack Up
www.nationaldefensemagazine.org


The United States has been the world’s leading maritime power for decades. However, the U.S. Navy could find itself in China’s wake if current trends continue, analysts say.

Washington and Beijing are now locked in great power competition.

“The biggest challenge for U.S. national security leaders over the next 30 years is the speed and sustainability of the [People’s Republic of China] national effort to deploy a global navy,” said retired Capt. James Fanell, who previously served as head of intelligence for the Pacific Fleet.

The modernization of the Chinese navy, also known as the PLA Navy, has been underway since the 1990s, and its fleet has greatly expanded.

In its annual report on China published last year, the Defense Department stated that its Asian rival has more than 300 surface combatants, submarines, amphibious ships, patrol craft and other specialized vessels.

In 2019, China had a 335-ship fleet, about 55 percent larger than in 2005, according to a recent Congressional Research Service report titled, “China’s Naval Modernization: Implications for U.S. Navy Capabilities — Background and Issues for Congress.”

If it was truly 1v1 it would be a slobber knocker. Me personally would bet on the US. We "United Nations" all are a developed world police we can call NATO.

 

[Consider Lizards]

the losers are Tommie, as ever, and every cunt arguing the specific subject in this thread. You're just indulging Tommie, and giving them sense of power, like a jannie. Go argue elsewhere.

 

[TheRedChair]

How in FUCK is there to be any discussion about China coming close in beating the US. The Chinks can't even beat the Indian Army for fucks sake.

They got their ass Whipped by Vietnam, their last major battle.

They -are- the paper dragon with flawed military equipment and suspect military experience.

And China really does NOT want to deal with Japan or S. Korea because they will fuck them up completely.

What China does well is use their population as a weapon, but this is a failed state with over 1 billion people who are dirtbag poor... REALLY poor. People in Shitago who are on welfare make 2.5 time more money than the average Chinese people.

Remember the Mantra...
CHINA LIES....
CHINA STEALS...
CHINA EATS EVERYTHING...

Those are just the plain facts that anyone who has a few brain cells can google up on how bad things really are in that failed state.

I've done business in the pacific rim. I've still have contacts creating content for me over there. I know all about the shit storms over there and for me it's the same o.... same o.... stuff coming from Whinne the Pooh.

 

[Ghost of Wesley Willis]

If nukes don't get involved should direct combat between China and the US break out, the US would easily win. The US still possesses a technological edge over China on top of better equipment and vehicles, the Pacific Fleet, and better training and military leadership. Even in their current state it'd be hugely in favor for the US.

Countries like Vietnam, India, Taiwan, and Japan would gladly side against China as well. Especially Vietnam and India, given the fact they're both regional rivals with a history of recent military conflicts against China and grudges going back thousands of years in the case of Vietnam.

However in a cold war sort of way, it'd be a stalemate. China is a very corrupt country effective at hiding their weaknesses and corruption. They're able to hurt America where it hurts most in the game of foreign policy, however the country has also grown increasingly westernized and Americanized on the homefront. A good example of this is Diabetes and Heart Disease are long becoming concerning health issues in China, along with Lung Cancer cases coming about from heavy smoking. The one child policy has also damaged the country demographically and will have serious consequences in the future, at the same time many Chinese men are slowly becoming shut ins similar to Hikikomoris in Japan. Military recruiters in China have also brought up the growing trend of Obesity among young boys, teenagers, and young men. The number of new recruits failing physical tests before basic training is also growing for them at an alarming rate.

America is still in the process of it's own self destruction, but China is only just starting.

 

[7he47r0n]

Could someone either expand on the steps made by Xi Jinping to gain more dictatorial powers, or point me towards a more extensive source of such information?

 

[Tragi-Chan]

It doesn’t matter in the end, the Space Jews will abolish all nations on their arrival.

 

[Mariposa Electrique]

This tells an interesting story. In general, Chinese people trust Beijing and mistrust the local authorities and Americans mistrust Washington while trusting the local authorities more.

Long-term survey reveals Chinese government satisfaction

Ash Center research team unveils findings from long-term public opinion survey.

news.harvard.edu

Hey, Tom. What are your plans for easter? Are you going to dress up like the pope and encourage alter boys to find Easter Eggs hidden underneath your robe?

 

[Ita Mori]

China is going to be severely understaffed in 10-15 years.
Then, considering that a majority of their new generations are just as lazy, fat, and entitled as Ameriniggers today, the Chinks ain't got a chance in hell unless they embrace immigration and hand out gibs like the US does, thus filling their ranks with new soldiers who were given citizenship, life insurance, and benefits for him and his family in exchange.

normies would finally kill themselves en masse once forced to go without iPhones

I want this timeline yesterday.

 

[Trigger Me Timbers]

China

Why?

Because they don’t let people like Tommy exist in their society.

 

[StraightShooter2]

The USA has actually only been a superpower since the post-WWII economic boom (in WWII, Germany had superior technology, such as developing ballistic missiles and sub-orbital bombers as early as the 1930s). I'm honestly curious how long its superpower status will last.

 

[Autopsy]

If nukes don't get involved should direct combat between China and the US break out, the US would easily win. The US still possesses a technological edge over China on top of better equipment and vehicles, the Pacific Fleet, and better training and military leadership. Even in their current state it'd be hugely in favor for the US.

I agree with your general assessment that China will have challenges going forward, too, though I think it will probably favor them overall for reasons I stated in my last post. On this point, however, I think the facts are a bit more muddy. The Chinese fleet is unproven, but on paper, "if it works," it would be incredibly difficult to assail the Chinese coastlines without twice as many Aegis than we have at the moment (which is why we're trying to ante up).
Technology isn't something where you have to make iterative improvements to "catch up." China invested heavily in modern ship-to-ship missiles, and simultaneously a large fleet of gunboats capable of fielding them, and developed its own advanced anti-ship ballistic missile that it has progressively developed capability to use. Had they deployed it in 2012 and invaded Taiwan, the US would have had exactly zero countermeasures to protect its carriers (according to public record, at least) while today there are some, but they have too limited utility in the event of such a close war to China's coastline.

This asymmetric warfare strategy calls into question whether "better equipment, the pacific fleet, better training, and military leadership" are even necessary to win an ostensibly defensive war. Their win condition would be to seize Taiwan and field defensive equipment within a week, rebuff attempts to approach over the ocean, and shut down US long-range missile capabilities, all things China is currently figuring out how to do. Then they could just sit there indefinitely, or force the US to land troops in the nearest reasonable marching distance... for the same reasons prior, it would have to be a long haul landing in perhaps Vietnam, the absolute farthest point from Beijing.
I think the biggest wildcards would be India, a proactive Vietnam, North Korea trying its luck or a rapidly re-arming Japan. Any of these would shift the calculus by opening up new options (thinning Chinese land forces & retaliatory MRBM emplacements in the desert, A split war with Vietnam finally pushing into China while the US and/or India invade from north & west, nuclear weapons, and a full out ship-to-ship missile war with Japan turned into one big ballistic missile staging ground, Cuba-style, respectively).

Edit:

The USA has actually only been a superpower since the post-WWII economic boom (in WWII, Germany had superior technology, such as developing ballistic missiles and sub-orbital bombers as early as the 1930s). I'm honestly curious how long its superpower status will last.

Military power has nothing to do with why the US was/is a superpower, it's down to the US being a massive chunk of an entire continent stretched across multiple climate zones, geological areas, and entire oceans, which means enormous access to resources. For example, when the media hysteria over the US "not having rare metals!!" and "China's monopoly!!" was going on, what they meant to say was that the US was not utilizing its access to lanthanides, not that it did not have access to lanthanides. The US has the most untapped lanthanides on the planet, as it happens, it simply prefers to let China dig them up because of their slave labor price-point.
Ironically, while this global policy is hostile to the US in the present, it does conserve US natural resources for the future, while China could very well tap out trying to supply the world with these resources (on the cheap) and eventually need it for their own consumer goods - only to have to buy from the US at a premium. You could blockade the US for a hundred years, cut off access even to Mexico and Canada, and after a period of restarting and reallocating manufacturing, life would not change in any meaningful way. If you were to do that to any of the competing "world powers" of decades past, they would run out of gas, electronics, eventually steel/rubber too, and they would starve to death. Except perhaps the current China (having already starved to death once and learning its lesson), but even it is still the #1 importer of food on the planet, by necessity, not because they want to get foreign food as a luxury like the US.

Germany and Russia both struggled with food production (a major factor in WWI and WWII), the US revolutionized it and has never starved since. The US built, prior to the 1930s, the world's largest shipping network which was sufficiently vicious in WWI that it had to be legislated into control to prevent Europe from getting skittish. That was reversed during WWII (obviously) with private contributions before 1941 and sanctioned lend-lease after that making up an alarming portion of the Allies' abilities to lay railways, provide motor transport, eat, and so on. This effect was particularly pronounced for the USSR, which is credited for its "human wave" and lives lost- those people couldn't have made it to the front line if the United States hadn't shipped them the Jeeps, trains, and MREs to do it. Across an ocean. Let the difficulties of that not go unstated. Many navies in the modern day still can't manage it, because they don't want or need to, but this sort of global force projection is why "US #1" is conventional wisdom, not ballistic missiles or sub-orbital bombers or the works. The only challenge to it is, well, shit getting sunk before it reaches shores, which is why that's much of the US' outgoing pressure in the form of MRBM countermeasure bases spread across the globe.

Looping in the discussion on food power, the utility to ship food long distances is overwhelming. The US is #2 for most arable farmland on the planet, but very little of it is current use, because US domestic food production is hyper-efficient and highly optimized; conversely, there are relatively few people living in the United States to eat this food. India is #1, and it has to use most of its farmland just to support its populace, and it cannot reasonably export over oceans to supplement, say, an invasion of Europe, simultaneously. The US could- even a 2% increase in arable land utilization would produce more food than the UK, Germany, France, and Poland do, combined. Further, the US has the most robust network of highways on the planet, which are (usually) well maintained & cleared. Despite appearances, this is a unique feature of the US and inland shipping networks of the EU or China are incredibly tenuous. The US has more roads and expressways than the entire EU, which all belong to one country and can be reasonably cleared in a wartime, and connect oceans apart. The US only needs Panama to move boats (and not even then, it has drydock land shipping capabilities for submarines and smaller frigates), it ships perishable food from California to New York and Florida to Washington just for shits and giggles.

This is unthinkable almost anywhere else on the planet. Only China competes in terms of expressways, and they are poorly maintained and less than useful for offensive purposes. The US can use its road network to secure a whole continent, invade Europe, and invade Asia simultaneously (as it has in WWII), while China barely has a surviving network of roads through its deserts, where fielding an army of troops towards India or Tibet or the likes would actually be useful. It is, in this way, an entirely defensive & logistical investment. Without belaboring the point, the US is also the only country with a surviving train network, which almost entirely used for resource transport. To ramp up, China's limited railway system would have to be vacated of passengers of all kinds, stripped, and retooled to ship tanks, boats, heavy utilities, resources, etc.., the same problem Germany & the UK faced with their national service, while the US would simply need to slap more trains on the tracks- the only reason the system is underused now is because the trucking system is so robust it doesn't need to.

Essentially, the United States is the culmination of the "Lebensraum" ideal that Germany was pursuing, and it made this obvious through the wars, thus becoming acknowledged as the predominant world power. If it ate Canada and had a totally secure northern/artic suite, it would be even scarier due to access to a few currently untapped rare metal/oil reserves the US has less of (but still has), and if it ate Mexico, nearly unassailable.

For reference,

All the people unironically answering Toomy Tooter lol

This is why, it's a decent excuse for some education on how war and military engagement even work, which is incredibly rare in CY+06, when everything is couched in weird "my gun is the biggest gun" terms because no one's fought a real war in 80 years. I honestly assumed this thread would get shunted to Deep Thoughts by now, but it looks like it wound up in Tommy's cult page instead.

 

[Coldgrip]

Which ever side ships Tom off to die in an cold, empty cell should win.

 

[Tragi-Chan]

Oppressive regimes tend to be unsustainable in the long run, particularly when cultural influences from outside are allowed in. With this in mind, Tommy shits himself and therefore should be ignored.