Victor Mignogna v. Funimation Productions, LLC, et al. (2019) - Vic's lawsuit against Funimation, VAs, and others, for over a million dollars.

Allanon

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Basically, as has been said for two years now, the law completely supports Vic's position, and decisions made by courts in the past support his position, and we're only sitting around f5ing the appeal courts page every week because Chupp made an error so blatantly wrong and obvious it's like he's AnOminous and gets the rules directly opposite of what's written down.
 

TheClappening

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Basically, as has been said for two years now, the law completely supports Vic's position, and decisions made by courts in the past support his position, and we're only sitting around f5ing the appeal courts page every week because Chupp made an error so blatantly wrong and obvious it's like he's AnOminous and gets the rules directly opposite of what's written down.
I don't know if I'd say completely supports. Both flavors of TI against Jamie and Funimation seem very limp, at least without the ability to get further discovery. In the appeal briefs, the filings made at least a colorable case for the two TIs against Monica, but the sum of the arguments for Jamie's TI was "Jamie holds a similar position to Monica, thus she would have performed the same torts."
 

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I don't know if I'd say completely supports. Both flavors of TI against Jamie and Funimation seem very limp, at least without the ability to get further discovery. In the appeal briefs, the filings made at least a colorable case for the two TIs against Monica, but the sum of the arguments for Jamie's TI was "Jamie holds a similar position to Monica, thus she would have performed the same torts."
@Ron Toye's fucked, though.
 

teriyakiburns

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I don't know if I'd say completely supports. Both flavors of TI against Jamie and Funimation seem very limp, at least without the ability to get further discovery. In the appeal briefs, the filings made at least a colorable case for the two TIs against Monica, but the sum of the arguments for Jamie's TI was "Jamie holds a similar position to Monica, thus she would have performed the same torts."
The point is, the law completely supports denial of a TCPA motion.
 

TheClappening

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The point is, the law completely supports denial of a TCPA motion.
A TCPA motion isn't monolithic though. In this case I think some things should pass (mostly the defamation for all parties, and TI with contacts for Ron) but others I don't (like TI against Jamie and Funi.)

I'd be happy to be surprised though.
 
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Kendrick

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A TCPA motion isn't monolithic though. In this case I think some things should pass (mostly the defamation for all parties, and TI with contacts for Ron) but others I don't (like TI against Jamie and Funi.)

I'd be happy to be surprised though.
I don't understand this in the justice system:

You have good support that a conspiracy was in place against you to defame and destroy any and all contracts you have with a side of your profession. You want to investigate if the people defaming you were part of that conspiracy so you bring charges forward against them.

They cry (wrongly) free speech, so every charges, even those unrelated to the free speech drop? How can Vic bring discovery demands pertaining to tortuous interference if the charge gets removed? He has receipts that cons keeps getting pressured to drop him. There's good inferrence that thoses are the mastermind, or know the mastermind behind all those pushes.

What would be his remedy? Just because he's a known person (not even a celebrity really) in a niche field, that means people can destroy his life with absolutely no kickback? That his previous employer can lie and infer actual criminal behaviours onto his person with impunity? What would be the steps to protect himself in front of that injustice?

He has no criminal charges against him, only rumours and gossip. The only thing he admitted to not be loyal to a partner in an union that was already dying.

That and the gay pants.
 

Allanon

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I don't know if I'd say completely supports. Both flavors of TI against Jamie and Funimation seem very limp, at least without the ability to get further discovery. In the appeal briefs, the filings made at least a colorable case for the two TIs against Monica, but the sum of the arguments for Jamie's TI was "Jamie holds a similar position to Monica, thus she would have performed the same torts."
I disagree. They're strong enough to get through TCPA. After which they get more discovery. I would say the fact that Monica and Ron acted as agents for Funimation while committing TI keeps Funimation safely in on that matter due to conspiracy. Jamie's is a little weak since it's almost entirely dependent on conspiracy. However, her defamation portion of the claim - like Funimation's - remains ironclad, at least as far as TCPA is concerned. It's okay for a weak claim at the TCPA stage, you just need to have a not nonexistent one.

I think the worst possible scenario that doesn't involve the appeals ignoring the written law just to support a lower court or pulling a Chupp out of frustration and boredom is that specifically Jamie's TI and conspiracy is tossed, but she remains in on defamation, and everyone else keeps all theirs. 15-2 isn't as snappy as 17-0, though.
 

TheClappening

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I don't understand this in the justice system:

You have good support that a conspiracy was in place against you to defame and destroy any and all contracts you have with a side of your profession. You want to investigate if the people defaming you were part of that conspiracy so you bring charges forward against them.

They cry (wrongly) free speech, so every charges, even those unrelated to the free speech drop? How can Vic bring discovery demands pertaining to tortuous interference if the charge gets removed? He has receipts that cons keeps getting pressured to drop him. There's good inferrence that thoses are the mastermind, or know the mastermind behind all those pushes.

What would be his remedy? Just because he's a known person (not even a celebrity really) in a niche field, that means people can destroy his life with absolutely no kickback? That his previous employer can lie and infer actual criminal behaviours onto his person with impunity? What would be the steps to protect himself in front of that injustice?

He has no criminal charges against him, only rumours and gossip. The only thing he admitted to not be loyal to a partner in an union that was already dying.

That and the gay pants.
The TCPA (and anti-SLAPPs in general) have a place. They dispose of obviously frivolous cases and punish the plaintiff for being a litigious asshole. Imagine not having anti-SLAPP (or 12.b.6) with people like Russell Greer and Melinda Scott running around.

Discovery can be time consuming and expensive, which is why the TCPA freezes it. That said, I think a good way to fix the TCPA would be to just allow discovery during its pendency. And if even after discovery the case is still found to be baselessly frivolous, add that to the attorney's fees and sanctions at judgment.


I disagree. They're strong enough to get through TCPA. After which they get more discovery. I would say the fact that Monica and Ron acted as agents for Funimation while committing TI keeps Funimation safely in on that matter due to conspiracy. Jamie's is a little weak since it's almost entirely dependent on conspiracy. However, her defamation portion of the claim - like Funimation's - remains ironclad, at least as far as TCPA is concerned. It's okay for a weak claim at the TCPA stage, you just need to have a not nonexistent one.

I think the worst possible scenario that doesn't involve the appeals ignoring the written law just to support a lower court or pulling a Chupp out of frustration and boredom is that specifically Jamie's TI and conspiracy is tossed, but she remains in on defamation, and everyone else keeps all theirs. 15-2 isn't as snappy as 17-0, though.
I'll probably need to look at exhibits in the pre-TCPA documents, but I distinctly remember not being impressed with the arguments for TI against Jamie in Vic's appellate brief and sur-reply. As I mentioned, the arguments were more or less "There is evidence of TI against Monica, and since Jamie has a similar position to Monica that's evidence against her, too." That just seems extremely weak to the point of nonexistence to me. Again, I'd love to be proven wrong because it would be funny as hell.

Didn't think of the vicarious liability angle in regards to Monica's TI. That could make the case for TI against Funimation, though in the Slatosch declaration I don't remember him mentioning that Monica was representing herself as an agent of Funimation.

Again, I'm not married to the idea that not all torts will come back, and I've love to see 17-0 because it would be fucking funny, but from a realistic view I don't see 17-0 happening.

Watkins v. Miller and Miller v. Schupp have nailed down defamation on Monica and Jamie. There's a strong case against Ron, though there's also a possibility that he skates by if Vic's considered a public figure. Funimation's defamation is probably the weakest, but it's still colorable which means it should probably pass.

Not sure on the others, mostly because the previous three TCPA cases haven't touched on TI, but Ron's probably fucked, and Monica with him.
 

2lolis1cup

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We're almost at a 1000 pages and it's a good bet that the evidence that would've made Vic rich has been destroyed or shoved up Schemmel's ass by Sabat by now
Even in the event that Vic won the appeal, he wouldn't likely get rich. The likely good outcome is reversal on all, but marchi. Even if you want to go full :optimistic: and say Vic wins all and has discovery tying everybody at FUNI & Co to this shit, it is still a pyrrhic victory. This requires Vic winning both the appeal and the case proper. He would win a massive judgement against any party remaining. The problem about that is the only party that can pay will likely be able to fight tooth and nail to not pay. Vic would be retired by the time Sony gave millions to him in a judgment and I can't even guess the odds of what FUNI would do if they got reversed. They are the only important party being sued by VIC. The only pocket book worth Vic's losses will be FUNI and I doubt they will pay more than lawyer cost +some damages if they have a choice.

I think a reversal of any kind and a judgement of any kind in Vic's favor is a huge win for him. He will never ever get the roles he has had or the conventions. His life as a VA is slightly better than if he did nothing, but the lines are drawn.

Vic has as much likelihood of getting rich off this as FUNI's lawyers. 🤔
 

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The only pocket book worth Vic's losses will be FUNI and I doubt they will pay more than lawyer cost +some damages if they have a choice.
If anything comes back regarding Funimation and they do not settle, I'd say Vic does not get a court victory out of this.
 

Save the Loli

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Discovery can be time consuming and expensive, which is why the TCPA freezes it. That said, I think a good way to fix the TCPA would be to just allow discovery during its pendency. And if even after discovery the case is still found to be baselessly frivolous, add that to the attorney's fees and sanctions at judgment.
Discovery could have been done at the TCPA stage, but only with leave of the court. Ty did not file any motions for this since it would've delayed the case, been furiously opposed by Lemomlungs, and he believed he already had the evidence needed because of the deposition.
 

Allanon

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The TCPA (and anti-SLAPPs in general) have a place. They dispose of obviously frivolous cases and punish the plaintiff for being a litigious asshole. Imagine not having anti-SLAPP (or 12.b.6) with people like Russell Greer and Melinda Scott running around.

Discovery can be time consuming and expensive, which is why the TCPA freezes it. That said, I think a good way to fix the TCPA would be to just allow discovery during its pendency. And if even after discovery the case is still found to be baselessly frivolous, add that to the attorney's fees and sanctions at judgment.



I'll probably need to look at exhibits in the pre-TCPA documents, but I distinctly remember not being impressed with the arguments for TI against Jamie in Vic's appellate brief and sur-reply. As I mentioned, the arguments were more or less "There is evidence of TI against Monica, and since Jamie has a similar position to Monica that's evidence against her, too." That just seems extremely weak to the point of nonexistence to me. Again, I'd love to be proven wrong because it would be funny as hell.

Didn't think of the vicarious liability angle in regards to Monica's TI. That could make the case for TI against Funimation, though in the Slatosch declaration I don't remember him mentioning that Monica was representing herself as an agent of Funimation.

Again, I'm not married to the idea that not all torts will come back, and I've love to see 17-0 because it would be fucking funny, but from a realistic view I don't see 17-0 happening.

Watkins v. Miller and Miller v. Schupp have nailed down defamation on Monica and Jamie. There's a strong case against Ron, though there's also a possibility that he skates by if Vic's considered a public figure. Funimation's defamation is probably the weakest, but it's still colorable which means it should probably pass.

Not sure on the others, mostly because the previous three TCPA cases haven't touched on TI, but Ron's probably fucked, and Monica with him.
To be fair, the TCPA and all anti-SLAPP laws are not designed to be used the way that they were used in this case. You're meant to file a TCPA/SLAPP motion immediately, which immediately freezes the discovery and demands that the plaintiff prove there exists literally any case whatsoever. The defendants did not do that. They behaved as if they were not going to TCPA, seeking out all the affidavits they could and a deposition of Vic and only then filed the TCPA once they assembled more defamation material for him. There's strong arguments that their behavior alone should have caused the lawsuit to pass a TCPA challenge because the defense themselves clearly did not view the case as frivolous nonsense.

I still think that while some of the torts won't see a victory at the end of the case (with the meager discovery allowed so far) they all at least scrape by the TCPA stage. It's such a low bar to say "Listen, it's entirely possible that they may have done this, in theory" that it seems hard to fail.
Even in the event that Vic won the appeal, he wouldn't likely get rich. The likely good outcome is reversal on all, but marchi. Even if you want to go full :optimistic: and say Vic wins all and has discovery tying everybody at FUNI & Co to this shit, it is still a pyrrhic victory. This requires Vic winning both the appeal and the case proper. He would win a massive judgement against any party remaining. The problem about that is the only party that can pay will likely be able to fight tooth and nail to not pay. Vic would be retired by the time Sony gave millions to him in a judgment and I can't even guess the odds of what FUNI would do if they got reversed. They are the only important party being sued by VIC. The only pocket book worth Vic's losses will be FUNI and I doubt they will pay more than lawyer cost +some damages if they have a choice.

I think a reversal of any kind and a judgement of any kind in Vic's favor is a huge win for him. He will never ever get the roles he has had or the conventions. His life as a VA is slightly better than if he did nothing, but the lines are drawn.

Vic has as much likelihood of getting rich off this as FUNI's lawyers. 🤔
It's never been about Vic getting rich. It has always been about stopping ongoing defamation and TI - both of which have not ceased now in 2+ years even with him starting the lawsuit, proving how much he needed to sue these people. Added possible benefits include them taking their chokeholds off of his career opportunities so that he's removed from studio blacklists and the like, formal apologies, and in theory maybe even giving him some roles back. It's not even about punishing them or airing out their secrets (for Vic, at least). If Funi ever settles, agreements might include said apologies and career opportunities, and if they just lose then they will at least lose a large amount of influence in their ability to interfere with his work, and other parties who currently run around getting him disinvited to conventions would lose much of their ability to insist he's some kind of danger when Vic can show a ruling that says "No, actually, that was legally proven to be all a pack of lies and the last people who said that about me were forced to shell out."

Getting some money to recoup what he's lost is nice (and for people less nice than Vic, seeing Monica and Sabat and etc fired), but the real aim is to stop the constant damage being done to him actively since 2019 directly caused by the people he's suing. Vic's made it pretty clear the money isn't what matters to him, it's his career, reputation, and livelihood that matters to him. If Funimation - and thus Sony - is smart, they'll appeal to that aspect and make a settlement offer to avoid being forced to pay out, should things go Vic's way when the court finally rules. And once Funimation is out, there's not really much way he's gonna make real money off of a judgment.
 

TheClappening

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If anything comes back regarding Funimation and they do not settle, I'd say Vic does not get a court victory out of this.
They'd probably settle. We saw the news corps bend the knee to smirky MAGA kid when he started demanding discovery. They probably settle post haste, especially if the other demands are also back in. I remember Ty was pursuing joint and several liability.

Even in the event that Vic won the appeal, he wouldn't likely get rich. The likely good outcome is reversal on all, but marchi. Even if you want to go full :optimistic: and say Vic wins all and has discovery tying everybody at FUNI & Co to this shit, it is still a pyrrhic victory. This requires Vic winning both the appeal and the case proper. He would win a massive judgement against any party remaining. The problem about that is the only party that can pay will likely be able to fight tooth and nail to not pay. Vic would be retired by the time Sony gave millions to him in a judgment and I can't even guess the odds of what FUNI would do if they got reversed. They are the only important party being sued by VIC. The only pocket book worth Vic's losses will be FUNI and I doubt they will pay more than lawyer cost +some damages if they have a choice.

I think a reversal of any kind and a judgement of any kind in Vic's favor is a huge win for him. He will never ever get the roles he has had or the conventions. His life as a VA is slightly better than if he did nothing, but the lines are drawn.

Vic has as much likelihood of getting rich off this as FUNI's lawyers. 🤔
I think if Monica is brought back on defamation, Jamie will have to necessarily be brought back too. The TCPA cases we've seen leading up to now make a very strong case concerning Jamie's lobby attack story.

@Allanon, since I can't quote you: It's not for Vic to get rich, per se, but for Vic to not retire penniless. It's highly likely he never works in anime again, even if he gets an unequivocal victory in court. What the case is trying to do is secure him the money he would have gotten prior to his natural retirement if he didn't get defamed.

Non-parties are going to hound him for the rest of his days, and sometimes manage to tangibly damage him. See Emma Plant.
 
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Allanon

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They'd probably settle. We saw the news corps bend the knee to smirky MAGA kid when he started demanding discovery. They probably settle post haste, especially if the other demands are also back in. I remember Ty was pursuing joint and several liability.


I think if Monica is brought back on defamation, Jamie will have to necessarily be brought back too. The TCPA cases we've seen leading up to now make a very strong case concerning Jamie's lobby attack story.

@Allanon, since I can't quote you: It's not for Vic to get rich, per se, but not for Vic to retire penniless. It's highly likely he never works in anime again, even if he gets an unequivocal victory in court. What the case is trying to do is secure him the money he would have gotten prior to his natural retirement if he didn't get defamed.

Non-parties are going to hound him for the rest of his days, and sometimes manage to tangibly damage him. See Emma Plant.
Realistically, if he pulls out a win or settlements, you will see Vic doing VA work again in the future. It may not be in anime specifically, but it may be something like video games. He's got huge popularity, he's got a long list of experience, he's quite good at what he does, and he's probably not going to charge a whole lot. He will probably not get his "old roles" back because most of those are with Funimaton and nothing short of an absolute nuke of a settlement deal or complete restructuring of the company will get him working for Funimation again, but because we know that Funimation is leaning on conventions to keep him out of them (it may be that even now the harassment campaigns on twitter don't do as much as they just give Funi a heads up and cover to quietly lean on the cons in question) and there's a lot of incest in the NA dubbing scene, we can presume Funimation is a big part of him losing business at other studios. Also realistically, Funimation will settle if it comes back on TCPA because Gen told Chuck Funimation refused to settle due to Sabat hyping up the TCPA. If it's guaranteed Funimation can't make back that money and is going to have to spend big dollars even if they win, Funi (and Sony) will very likely immediately settle to avoid bad press. Plus, the last thing they want is for 2019 to happen all over again and they have to run around putting out PR fires everywhere. Funimation #1 trending for something negative was not a good day for them even if they appeared to weather that storm publicly.

But even without that, if he has a victory, you'll see a sharp decline in conventions that disinvite him and an appreciable uptick in bigger conventions inviting him, as the defamation and TI will be severely defanged. Again I'm sure he'll appreciate what money or retirement funds he gets, but that is expressly stated by him not to be the intent. The intent is to salvage what he can of his career and repair his reputation, and he is willing to take home as close to $0 as possible if he can just get that.
 

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But even without that, if he has a victory, you'll see a sharp decline in conventions that disinvite him and an appreciable uptick in bigger conventions inviting him
Unless said convention owners belong to that "We Run Anime Conventions" group.
These cliques are the gatekeepers and are a problem.
 

2lolis1cup

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It has always been about stopping ongoing defamation and TI

If this ended in Chupp's court room years ago, I would say that is possible. I however have seen years of ongoing defemination. It is no longer reasonably possible to tie Vic's cancelation to TI instead of "drama". These people have had their win. They will screech 17-0 until the end of time even if they have a full remand. These are ideologs that will likely sell their house and cars to continue to "fight for justice." That is why I continue to believe that even if Vic wins it will be a Pyrrhic victory.

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Even in the event that Vic won the appeal, he wouldn't likely get rich. The likely good outcome is reversal on all, but marchi. Even if you want to go full :optimistic: and say Vic wins all and has discovery tying everybody at FUNI & Co to this shit, it is still a pyrrhic victory.
That would be almost certain if the case comes back but he has to prove defamation to the actual malice standard. Monica is the main person who could be held liable under that unless they're able to get joint and several liability against all defendants. TI against Ron is also a pretty strong count.
 

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Even in the event that Vic won the appeal, he wouldn't likely get rich. The likely good outcome is reversal on all, but marchi. Even if you want to go full :optimistic: and say Vic wins all and has discovery tying everybody at FUNI & Co to this shit, it is still a pyrrhic victory. This requires Vic winning both the appeal and the case proper. He would win a massive judgement against any party remaining. The problem about that is the only party that can pay will likely be able to fight tooth and nail to not pay. Vic would be retired by the time Sony gave millions to him in a judgment and I can't even guess the odds of what FUNI would do if they got reversed. They are the only important party being sued by VIC. The only pocket book worth Vic's losses will be FUNI and I doubt they will pay more than lawyer cost +some damages if they have a choice.

I think a reversal of any kind and a judgement of any kind in Vic's favor is a huge win for him. He will never ever get the roles he has had or the conventions. His life as a VA is slightly better than if he did nothing, but the lines are drawn.

Vic has as much likelihood of getting rich off this as FUNI's lawyers. 🤔
Vic already won. I don't mean that in the COPIUM sense, but just fighting the case and getting the information out there officially in an undisputed way allowed him to stay alive and get another 5 or so years of support via conventions.

I unironically think that was the actual goal of the lawsuit.
 

Allanon

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If this ended in Chupp's court room years ago, I would say that is possible. I however have seen years of ongoing defemination. It is no longer reasonably possible to tie Vic's cancelation to TI instead of "drama". These people have had their win. They will screech 17-0 until the end of time even if they have a full remand. These are ideologs that will likely sell their house and cars to continue to "fight for justice." That is why I continue to believe that even if Vic wins it will be a Pyrrhic victory.

Eh. I'm not taking a black pill unless I have to. I see this as no different than the excessive optimism people had where they hoped Sabat would go to prison and people like @MarzGurl who weren't even in the lawsuit would get ground into dust. The reality that the court system is stupid slapped people in the face, and people have been doomposting ever since. If ongoing TI is happening, and I think it is because I think Funimation has shown itself to be that stupid, they can still get discovery to show this if they are ever allowed to continue the lawsuit. I think it cannot be overstated how completely irrelevant and unimportant to this planet the screeching on twitter is. Nobody cancels Vic from a convention because a fujoshi types out the magic "0-17!" in a tweet. They cancel Vic because people with power tell them to cancel him, or because people who complain can point to defamatory statements that have not been removed or rebuffed made by people in authority. They can say "Vic is a danger to guests because another frequent con guest reported that he assaults guests and congoers" and other such things. They cannot say that if the courts eventually find that those statements were defamatory and therefore false.

Will some cons still cancel him or refuse to book him because they're part of that circle? Yes, probably, even though he'd never been banned from any of them until now and so probably will get re-invited when the crusty old staff gets replaced with new blood who don't care about the grudgewank, but his current issues are less about him not getting invites to that small circle of conventions and more about him not getting invites to a bunch of other conventions, and repeatedly getting the invites he does receive revoked.

I will say it again: nobody, not even their own parents, cares what fujos tweet on twitter about Vic. What matters are the people with power who have materially damaged him with defamatory tweets and who continue to do so to this day and the people behind the scenes who work the quiet TI angle in an ongoing spite match to try to freeze out an Italian dude who likes warm hugs more than sloppy workplace orgies.