Warhammer 40k -

Ted_Breakfast

What'll it be, boys?
kiwifarms.net
Playing the minis in general sounds tedious to me, but then I got sold off of minis gaming due to the group I played with. It was Heroclix instead, so no need to put in the time to paint and make them look good, but there was still the pay to win angle that I didn't like. Probably doesn't help I don't really have a passion for minis gaming in general.
I have a lot of Heroclix too, but I plan on selling off all my Marvel stuff sometime. I'll probably never play the game again (it's a little wonky, especially for me and my tendency to field fluffy teams over good ones), but I have too much invested in my legion of Batman foes to check out completely.

I really like 40k, but I think the suggested 2000 point game size is too big and arbitrary. 1000 or even 1250 point games are much more fun in my experience, and the smaller size tends to eliminate some of the cheesier units from being included.

I know people don't want to hear this, but AOS has grown into a more dynamic game than 40k. The turns are shorter (even when taking into account troop movement) and even the much-hated roll for turn initiative starts to make sense once you play enough. The only real problem I have with the game is that two armies (certain builds of ghouls and stripper elves) are cheesy right now and require little thought to win with.
 

Saint Kelly

Underachiever and proud of it!
kiwifarms.net
Downtime in tabletop is just.....fuuuuck. Playing IG vs Orkz, okay lemme move my 100 boyz..okay lemme move my 100 guards. FFS. The other issue is it plays like a slowly deflating balloon. You'd think you would want the action to stay the same or ramp up, not dwindle down as the game comes to an end.

WH40k is the only game I've played where I can literally hear yawns from someone when it isn't their turn.
Nothing against IG players, but playing against them is so dull. That first shooting phase is like 45 minutes of dice-rolling tedium. I prefer 1000 point games just for that reason.
I find that a big problem with 40K tabletop is that it really favors alpha striking and really no tactical thought. Typically whoever manages to go first will shoot everyone to death, unless due to bad rolls or map set up then the other player gets to slaughter you instead. Shooting, Melee, Charging it just takes so much time and it's not very engaging. All it boils down to is who do you pretend to shoot at with your models next and pray you roll a 6 or whatever. Yes I understand there's objective based missions or whatever you call them again, but even then it still boils down to who can alpha strike the other harder.
 

Just Some Other Guy

kiwifarms.net
I find that a big problem with 40K tabletop is that it really favors alpha striking and really no tactical thought. Typically whoever manages to go first will shoot everyone to death, unless due to bad rolls or map set up then the other player gets to slaughter you instead. Shooting, Melee, Charging it just takes so much time and it's not very engaging. All it boils down to is who do you pretend to shoot at with your models next and pray you roll a 6 or whatever. Yes I understand there's objective based missions or whatever you call them again, but even then it still boils down to who can alpha strike the other harder.
The common argument is usually "Use more terrain", but goddamn, maybe the battlefield you're using just isn't suited for tons of terrain. Not every battle should have to be a City of Death scenario.
 

Saint Kelly

Underachiever and proud of it!
kiwifarms.net
The common argument is usually "Use more terrain", but goddamn, maybe the battlefield you're using just isn't suited for tons of terrain. Not every battle should have to be a City of Death scenario.
Then if you use to much terrain it becomes more like a series of 1 on 1s or a conga line where you have to wait to get your licks in.
 

muh_moobs

Lord of mspaint shitposts
kiwifarms.net
hey you guys want more dreadknight write offs?
View attachment 874392
there some soy-filled faggots on /tg saying 'oh well the guard have the sentinel, so why cant the marines have their own?'

who? who the hell is going to look at this be like 'Y E S'?
Poorly executed, but this is cool. This harkens back to Rogue Trader when the "pilots" of dreadnoughts could come out of the machines and do stuff outside of their armor.

OG 40k is bet 40k.

Edit: addendum:

Like, really. Now that I've caught up on the last few page of the thread, you all just need to get a cheap copy of the original Rogue Trader book off ebay (or go to Warhammer World and buy the reprint if you're in the UK) and play with that. You can set the point limit as low or as high as you want, but the game is truly meant to be played as a skirmish game with small units on either side of the table.

Paint the models how ever you want, and make up whatever lore you want for Ur Doodz.

Playing 1st edition will solve all of the complains I've read in the last few pages.
 
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CamelCursive

kiwifarms.net
I find that a big problem with 40K tabletop is that it really favors alpha striking and really no tactical thought.
You are correct. Anyone who thinks winning at 40k takes actual skill is a fucking idiot, unless "buy the correct toy" or "know how to read the rules for a toy" are actual 'skills'- which, at that point you may as well expect a parade for doing laundry by yourself. Shine on, you shiny diamond.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that any idiot can pick up the rulebook and within 10 minutes be winning a tournament. But 40k isn't a strategic challenge- it's about having the right toy against the other guy's toys, and knowing what a couple of paragraphs say about how your toys work. That's really about it, "follow instructions and use common sense". When all else fails, throwing a shitload of dice at something will win- you can wound a fucking Baneblade on 6's, even if your dude's attack is a fistful of soggy rice crispies.

There's no cunning ruse involved, no tactical brilliance, no bold risky manuevers, no clever combination of hidden assets... it's all pretty basic- not that it's a bad thing at all, not every game needs to be a mental workout. As much as I love Corvus Belli's Infinity for being a very tactical game that does require a significant degree of ruses, tactical thinking, taking risks, and having hidden tricks up your sleeve... there's a reason I don't play it but once or twice a month at most... and I do recommend Infinity, it's a skirmish game with a degree of tactical depth, and when you compare Infinity to Kill-Team it's like comparing structural engineering to stacking Duplo blocks.

I wish GW would focus down and make a new version of Shadow War, or some kind of Skirmish game with a lot of tactical depth that involved more than a few simple, basic action. Necromunda is very much a step in the right direction, to a point where one of my favorite things about it is the ability to make your own dudes from scratch to use as a 'gang'- I've seen people drag up everything from Catachans, Ecclesiarchy Frateris Militia, Rogue Trader Retinues, and I've even made an Afriel Strain Death Squad.
 

Imperialist #348

kiwifarms.net
what i want to is what the hell else is in the ghoul stars? when is trazyn gonna stop snatching people? and when the hell are we gonna get models for the rest of the daemon primarchs.

hell where are our updated thunder warriors?
 
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hauser

kiwifarms.net
any warhammer 40,000 roleplay (as in the franchise, as originally conceived by fantasy flight games; the best shit EVER) enthusiasts here? I really gotta point out how the new developer and publisher of the latest entry in the franchise "wrath & glory" are a bunch of embarrassing morons. the whole emphasis on not dying in a goddamn warhammer 40,000 game is astounding to me. they did away with the whole d% system for no good reason as well. everything about is shit, and I haven't even read the core rulebook itself because I know it would be a waste of time and energy.
 

Paleololicon

kiwifarms.net
I think for reasons such as this, we will see Kill Team pushed more.
I've been getting pretty deep into KT and I have to say I like it a lot more. With all the scenarios, objectives, and customization of units, there seems to be more room for strategy. Also, the fact that most games can be played in under an hour makes it a lot more exciting.

Every time I play big 40k it's usually just a several hour appeal to the RNG gods with buckets of dice.
 
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Ted_Breakfast

What'll it be, boys?
kiwifarms.net
I've been getting pretty deep into KT and I have to say I like it a lot more. With all the scenarios, objectives, and customization of units, there seems to be more room for strategy. Also, the fact that most games can be played in under an hour makes it a lot more exciting.

Every time I play big 40k it's usually just a several hour appeal to the RNG gods with buckets of dice.
The simple fact is whoever has better and more guns wins in 40K. There was a couple of months after the drop of the Tyranid Codex where it seemed that different play styles might be equally viable, but that was short-lived.

Thank goodness for the Orks, they're the only competitive army right now with a truly distinct feel.
 

Adamska

Last Gunman
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
any warhammer 40,000 roleplay (as in the franchise, as originally conceived by fantasy flight games; the best shit EVER) enthusiasts here? I really gotta point out how the new developer and publisher of the latest entry in the franchise "wrath & glory" are a bunch of embarrassing morons. the whole emphasis on not dying in a goddamn warhammer 40,000 game is astounding to me. they did away with the whole d% system for no good reason as well. everything about is shit, and I haven't even read the core rulebook itself because I know it would be a waste of time and energy.
Haven't personally played Wrath and Glory; so I wouldn't know what they did poorly. I can say that Fantasy Flight probably has the best d% system though, since it actually allows you to look competent... usually.
 

hauser

kiwifarms.net
Haven't personally played Wrath and Glory; so I wouldn't know what they did poorly. I can say that Fantasy Flight probably has the best d% system though, since it actually allows you to look competent... usually.
hell yeah. I read other core rulebooks like shadowrun, eclipse phase, dungeons & dragons, pathfinder, and savage worlds, but in my opinion nothing beats the sheer efficiency and simplicity of the d% system, at least in the way that fantasy flight games did for w40k roleplay. that shit is simply extraordinary.
 
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Horus

Rawdog is the lawdog.
kiwifarms.net
The simple fact is whoever has better and more guns wins in 40K. There was a couple of months after the drop of the Tyranid Codex where it seemed that different play styles might be equally viable, but that was short-lived.

Thank goodness for the Orks, they're the only competitive army right now with a truly distinct feel.
I have felt that way for awhile now, most of the shooting got pretty bland. The Tau's ability to jump their suits, fire, and jump back added some much needed mobility to the game for awhile.
At the end of the day though, most factions just line their dudes up, fire, and hope to hit.
What would really make the game interesting is if both sides fired at the same time, or their was a return fire mechanic of some sort.
 

muh_moobs

Lord of mspaint shitposts
kiwifarms.net
I've been getting pretty deep into KT and I have to say I like it a lot more. With all the scenarios, objectives, and customization of units, there seems to be more room for strategy. Also, the fact that most games can be played in under an hour makes it a lot more exciting.

Every time I play big 40k it's usually just a several hour appeal to the RNG gods with buckets of dice.
I have felt that way for awhile now, most of the shooting got pretty bland. The Tau's ability to jump their suits, fire, and jump back added some much needed mobility to the game for awhile.
At the end of the day though, most factions just line their dudes up, fire, and hope to hit.
What would really make the game interesting is if both sides fired at the same time, or their was a return fire mechanic of some sort.
You fucking heretics aren't listening. Everything you want is in the 1st edition core rulebook. Head over to the trove dot net (we're not making fun of the guy, so no link for google to add this to search results) and download a copy.

As for the rest of you, behold:

 

Saint Kelly

Underachiever and proud of it!
kiwifarms.net
hell yeah. I read other core rulebooks like shadowrun, eclipse phase, dungeons & dragons, pathfinder, and savage worlds, but in my opinion nothing beats the sheer efficiency and simplicity of the d% system, at least in the way that fantasy flight games did for w40k roleplay. that shit is simply extraordinary.
any warhammer 40,000 roleplay (as in the franchise, as originally conceived by fantasy flight games; the best shit EVER) enthusiasts here? I really gotta point out how the new developer and publisher of the latest entry in the franchise "wrath & glory" are a bunch of embarrassing morons. the whole emphasis on not dying in a goddamn warhammer 40,000 game is astounding to me. they did away with the whole d% system for no good reason as well. everything about is shit, and I haven't even read the core rulebook itself because I know it would be a waste of time and energy.
I think a big problem with W&G was that it tried to accommodate for everything from playing a factory monkey on a backwater Imperial world to playing a super elite Tau strike team, leaving the game wide as an ocean and with the depth of a kiddy pool. Also when I was flipping through rulebooks trying to decide which system to GM for I found W&Gs presentation to be absolute terrible. The quality was all over the place from text to art, one art piece looked like it was made for clipart and the next one would be one of those ancient iconic pieces you see when you look up 40k.
 
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Horus

Rawdog is the lawdog.
kiwifarms.net
hell yeah. I read other core rulebooks like shadowrun, eclipse phase, dungeons & dragons, pathfinder, and savage worlds, but in my opinion nothing beats the sheer efficiency and simplicity of the d% system, at least in the way that fantasy flight games did for w40k roleplay. that shit is simply extraordinary.
Not to get off topic, but Eclipse Phase was one of the best fictional settings I have encountered outside of 40K.
That having been said. Fantasy Flight did a good job with the Warhammer fantasy rpg as well. Really lethal combat system that made you feel powerful, yet vulnerable at the same time.
 
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