Disaster ‘We Don't Know a Planet Like This': CO2 Levels Hit 415 PPM for First Time in 3 Million+ Years - Bring your scuba gear

Ashy the Angel

The Cultural Marxist under your bed
kiwifarms.net
Ok, so you're going with a combo of "the green new deal was only pretending to be exceptional" and "it started a conversation".

You're silly. YOLO has never been the right's environmental stance. Just the strawman version lefties believe in. Try reading and listening to actual right leaning people instead of imagining stupid positions to ascribe to them.
So far all I've seen is "reactive market-based solutions", which I'm not sure means anything, and a bunch of people going "b-buh what about China". Just because other countries still pollute doesn't mean we can't try cutting down on our own shit. What, are they gonna invade us because we installed a few solar panels? I genuinely don't get that argument, but as always I'm all ears.
 

Sprig of Parsley

Damnation dignified
kiwifarms.net
So far all I've seen is "reactive market-based solutions", which I'm not sure means anything, and a bunch of people going "b-buh what about China". Just because other countries still pollute doesn't mean we can't try cutting down on our own shit. What, are they gonna invade us because we installed a few solar panels? I genuinely don't get that argument, but as always I'm all ears.
The problem with a few solar panels is that a few solar panels ain't going to fix a god damned thing. In terms of what China means here - any move we make that is not paralleled by China or India to rein in emissions and so on is going to result in China and India taking whatever it is we have left for manufacturing. And China and India will laugh as they let the offshoring bring them more business (which they like) and more pollution (which they barely even fucking care about). So any kind of step we take to clamp down on pollution needs to be competitively framed so that we're not just fucking putting the pollution somewhere else so hipster faggots in cities can feel good about themselves.

This is the problem with most green solutions. They have this very charmed notion that everyone else in the world gives as much of a fuck about this issue as we do. They don't. China's only starting to rein in some forms of pollution because they're turning their rivers weird colors and their cities are basically gassing people so badly they're experiencing spikes in asthma and other respiratory ailments. India gives even LESS of a fuck.
 
So far all I've seen is "reactive market-based solutions", which I'm not sure means anything, and a bunch of people going "b-buh what about China". Just because other countries still pollute doesn't mean we can't try cutting down on our own shit. What, are they gonna invade us because we installed a few solar panels? I genuinely don't get that argument, but as always I'm all ears.
What, in particular, haven't you seen a solution to?
CO2 levels? That's not a actually a real problem, and it seems to correlate with temperature trends so we should expect it to keep rising for the foreseeable future. General pollution? Yeah, you don't see much sensible policy get any airtime, that's true, but the green new deal never was that.
Install a few solar panels? We are literally doing that, they're subsidized all over the place. Half the houses in my city have solar panels on them.
If we cripple our economy into irrelevance by insisting on nonsense policies, then China will pick up the slack, and they're worse polluters than us by far. Short term environmental gains for long term losses, not to mention all the non environmental effects.
 

Sprig of Parsley

Damnation dignified
kiwifarms.net
What, in particular, haven't you seen a solution to?
CO2 levels? That's not a actually a real problem, and it seems to correlate with temperature trends so we should expect it to keep rising for the foreseeable future. General pollution? Yeah, you don't see much sensible policy get any airtime, that's true, but the green new deal never was that.
Install a few solar panels? We are literally doing that, they're subsidized all over the place. Half the houses in my city have solar panels on them.
If we cripple our economy into irrelevance by insisting on nonsense policies, then China will pick up the slack, and they're worse polluters than us by far. Short term environmental gains for long term losses, not to mention all the non environmental effects.
Consider that a lot of third-world areas that are starting to lurch through industrialization and so on in an effort to move up in the world are crutching hard on dirty technology. Also consider that greenies sweeping through and chiding them for using dirty technology is going to look kind of fucking dickish. "We used this to move forward, but you're not allowed because our sensibilities have changed since then. We'd tell you to get with the times but lol you can't afford it."
 

ButterBar

kiwifarms.net
So far all I've seen is "reactive market-based solutions", which I'm not sure means anything,
It means using more nuclear energy in the power grid and using companies with marketable economically profitable solutions like more fuel efficiency and hybridization on vehicles.

and a bunch of people going "b-buh what about China". Just because other countries still pollute doesn't mean we can't try cutting down on our own shit. What, are they gonna invade us because we installed a few solar panels? I genuinely don't get that argument, but as always I'm all ears
We've installed plenty of solar panels. Cutting down on our own shit effectively doesn't matter when you have China and India, that's the point. If we go for a green party style solution and nuke our own economy and transfer to horse and buggy or embraced the green new deal the argument is that China and India and others in Asia like Korea, Vietnam, and Japan as well as Eastern Europe, South America and the Middle Eastern oil barons will effectively take the economic hole we left in the global market and dominate it themselves filling in our niches we left and producing pretty much the same CO2. Completely non-market based and anti-market solutions to the climate are effectively the prisoner dilemma. If everyone goes along with it it works out, if a few players decide not to then the whole thing fails. And no, the concern for me with China isn't them invading us but taking our slot as world power as our military and political clout is reduced to nothing and they take over the developing world for themselves.
 

Sprig of Parsley

Damnation dignified
kiwifarms.net
It means using more nuclear energy in the power grid and using companies with marketable economically profitable solutions like more fuel efficiency and hybridization on vehicles.


We've installed plenty of solar panels. Cutting down on our own shit effectively doesn't matter when you have China and India, that's the point. If we go for a green party style solution and nuke our own economy and transfer to horse and buggy or embraced the green new deal the argument is that China and India and others in Asia like Korea, Vietnam, and Japan as well as Eastern Europe, South America and the Middle Eastern oil barons will effectively take the economic hole we left in the global market and dominate it themselves filling in our niches we left and producing pretty much the same CO2 Completely non-market based and anti-market solutions to the climate are effectively the prisoner dilemma. If everyone goes along with it it works out, if a few players decide not to then the whole thing fails. And no, the concern for me with China isn't them invading us but taking our slot as world power as our military and political clout is reduced to nothing and they take over the developing world for themselves.
It gets better when you factor in the effects of transferring manufacturing jobs overseas to places that think workplace safety is utterly beside the point and giving workers breaks is spoiling them. All about those workers, though, am I right?

I'll be honest though, no one in their right mind wants an Earth with an unchallenged, hegemonic China. That's fucking nightmare fuel.
 

Sprig of Parsley

Damnation dignified
kiwifarms.net
I keep thinking of how to get other big players on board with a green industry initiative, and recall that China's not above doing things like building entire cities where NO ONE LIVES in order to buoy their economy.

I'm still kind of hazy on how that even works, but I'm wondering if that maybe holds a key into getting them into green tech. Pretty much just spitballing here. India I have no clue, they're not the easiest people in the world to understand.
 
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Poiseon

I am literal poison.
kiwifarms.net
I keep thinking of how to get other big players on board with a green industry initiative, and recall that China's not above doing things like building entire cities where NO ONE LIVES in order to buoy their economy.

I'm still kind of hazy on how that even works, but I'm wondering if that maybe holds a key into getting them into green tech. Pretty much just spitballing here. India I have no clue, they're not the easiest people in the world to understand.
India is one of the few countries where the populace are actually shit sling monkeys. They'll get in a nuke fight with Pakistan or they'll fall into some religious civil war.

As for China's ghost's cities. Think of the Union mobsters of yesteryear. They start a construction project that ultimately goes nowhere to keep people on payroll and keep the economy ticking. It's entirely unsustainable and will only lead to a devastating economic crash. I've said it before, the Chinese economy is so fragile that it could break with little provocation. If the US and the US alone enacted a full embargo, the boogeyman of China would snap like a chicken bone in a wolfs' jaw.
 

ElAbominacion

Somewhere in the Swamps south of the Mexico border
kiwifarms.net
The 'global warming is a scam' scam was perpetrated by wealthy oil and coal conglomerates in order to protect their business, much like how cigarette companies bribed and mislead doctors.


Get double conspiracy'd, fag.
Bernays brags about this in Propaganda.
 
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ColtWalker1847

kiwifarms.net
What, are they gonna invade us because we installed a few solar panels?
Solar panels are just natural gas by proxy. Grid stabilization is a bitch.

By that I mean the brand-new bleeding edge natural gas combined cycle plants would run more efficiently (i.e. consume less fuel and produce less CO2) if they didn't have to ramp up and down so often to meet all the weird grid disturbances caused by wind and solar being so finnicky and inconsistent in production. T. Boone Pickens loves him some windmills, it means the grid belongs to him and his gas fields.

The reality is that you cannot replace baseload grid power with renewables. It just makes shit worse. At best this stuff fills in some little areas on the margins of energy production. Decarbonizing will require big beefy industrial scale power by the petawatt. Dicking around with these costly non-solutions is just handing the Chinese (who make no pretenses about caring about environmental shit) greater economic incentives to be polluting bitches.
 

Ashy the Angel

The Cultural Marxist under your bed
kiwifarms.net
I'll be honest though, no one in their right mind wants an Earth with an unchallenged, hegemonic China. That's fucking nightmare fuel.
Gonna definitely catch some flak for this but I don't really give a shit about China whatsoever. I don't care about them becoming a superpower or taking over our economic first place or what have ye. Never really got people's obsession with them in terms of what America should do within its borders. Guess that's me being naive as fuck tho.
 

Sprig of Parsley

Damnation dignified
kiwifarms.net
Gonna definitely catch some flak for this but I don't really give a shit about China whatsoever. I don't care about them becoming a superpower or taking over our economic first place or what have ye. Never really got people's obsession with them in terms of what America should do within its borders. Guess that's me being naive as fuck tho.
It is, yes. I'll leave it at that because it's not like it's difficult to surmise why most people don't want a dominant-superpower China.
 

Iwasamwillbe

Rational Big-Brained Deep-Thinking Philosopher
kiwifarms.net
Better Dead Than Red makes for great Cold War propaganda
>Implying that such a statement isn't literally true

Nigger please.

Gonna definitely catch some flak for this but I don't really give a shit about China whatsoever. I don't care about them becoming a superpower or taking over our economic first place or what have ye. Never really got people's obsession with them in terms of what America should do within its borders. Guess that's me being naive as fuck tho.
That's probably because you're an ignorant idiot unaware of the dictatorship that is modern China, or how China has been attempting to basically take over various countries for a while now.
 

pwnest injun

An Honest Man is Always in Trouble
kiwifarms.net
That's probably because you're an ignorant idiot unaware of the dictatorship that is modern China, or how China has been attempting to basically take over various countries for a while now.
I can't look at peeled/chopped garlic in a store without thinking about how there's a 100% chance that it was peeled by a Chinese convict with their teeth, because their fingernails already fell off from doing it by hand for 16 hours a day.
 
Gonna definitely catch some flak for this but I don't really give a shit about China whatsoever. I don't care about them becoming a superpower or taking over our economic first place or what have ye. Never really got people's obsession with them in terms of what America should do within its borders. Guess that's me being naive as fuck tho.
Ok... You do realize we share the same planet with them, right? If you're worried about the future of the environment, the most populous, giant landmass that is rapidly industrialising itself is quite relevant, even ignoring the politics and human rights abuses...
 
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Smaug's Smokey Hole

Gammalt bröd rostar aldrig.
kiwifarms.net
Fun fact, more rainforest is destroyed for farming than for logging. Logging areas while planting trees is sustainable, if the soil can sustain that.
I left that part out from my rain forest-asphyxiation post, it felt redundant but my retarded school might have tweaked my perception of what is well known. We were taught that the rain forests were burnt down to raise cattle so McDonalds could sell cheap hamburgers and growth of McDonalds meant less rain forests and less oxygen. It was an anti-american thing the teachers were pushing. We didn't even have McDonalds, it was just a thing from TV and movies.
 

It's HK-47

Meatbag's Bounty of Bodies
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Gonna definitely catch some flak for this but I don't really give a shit about China whatsoever. I don't care about them becoming a superpower or taking over our economic first place or what have ye. Never really got people's obsession with them in terms of what America should do within its borders. Guess that's me being naive as fuck tho.
Go spend some time leafing through China Uncensored, they're a pretty easily-digestible source of information that'll help you figure out why China is such a problem, if you ever feel keen to brush up on the subject. When it comes to the pollution that China generates, for example, it doesn't stay in China. They produce so much of it that it actually comes here. If you lived on the other side of the neighborhood from someone that produced so much garbage that the garbage bags started to fall into your windows, wouldn't you be somewhat upset?

That's without even going into their persecution of the Falun Gong or the organ trafficking problem in their prison systems or their human rights violations against their own citizens or the fact that China is almost single-handedly propping up all of these shitty dictatorships like Venezuela or North Korea or Iran, or the way that they're using the Belt and Road Initiative to essentially economically handcuff any country stupid enough to buy into the deals for 100 years.

This isn't really the appropriate thread for a China-related shit-fit but suffice it to say that the Chinese Communist Party is a very considerable problem.
 
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