Western Animation -

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Steamboat_Bill

Going to beat the record of the Robert E. Lee
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Where are the SJWs complaining about minority erasure when it's one of those rare examples where it actually fucking happens?
Well, if you don't know about it, you can't complain about it, can you?

From what I recall reading Mel Blanc was rarely credited himself until he asked for credit...and was forced to take a pay cut as a result. Then you had the Disney comic books where individual artists were rarely credited.
Mel Blanc only got credited because he managed to get an exclusive contract with WB to do voices for them. I don't know when that part became null and void, but by the 60s he was doing voices in TV animation - Barney Rubble, Mr. Spacely, etc.

Of course, the Disney rule back then was that everything had to be credited to Walt. You couldn't sign your own name. People used to call Carl Barks "the Good Duck Artist" because of that. His name didn't come out until the mid-60s. Now, things are different and Disney lets the artists on the comics have credits.
 

Technetium

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In those days, studio generally never credited every single person who may have worked on a particular production. Animators high up in ladder like those that did keys often got credited and inbetweeners simply weren't. That changed by the 1980's often thanks to union rules and you started to see credits much more thorough than they used to be.
Oh so that's why there are so few names in the Looney Toons credits. I thought back in those days they only hired artists with insanely high efficiencies. Like for example I once spoke to this old film music composer who told me back in the golden days, you had whole orchestras that would almost nail the piece by sight-reading. I thought that there were these same kind of supermen working behind the scenes in animation too. But I suppose he may have embellished the memories of his experience a bit...
 

AnOminous

Really?
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Retired Staff
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Mel Blanc only got credited because he managed to get an exclusive contract with WB to do voices for them. I don't know when that part became null and void, but by the 60s he was doing voices in TV animation - Barney Rubble, Mr. Spacely, etc.
And being known as a name is how that happens. If you're not known as a name you don't exist. Which is why all these Western companies that do animations hire a bunch of Third Worlders they don't have to pay and can treat as subhumans while they make wokeshit for white Americans.
 

The Pink Panther

Why Can't Man Be More Like Animals?
True & Honest Fan
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If we're talking Wanrer Bros. and their cartoons, it was usually the director, a timing director and a small team of animators (usually 4 credited at a time. No idea if that was how many actually worked on any given short, since there was a lot of uncredited staffers working for them, including interestingly enough, Filmation founder Lou Scheimer on backgrounds). Most shorts varied the amount of drawings required depending on the director or sequence, but usually it was 2s with 1s used for particularly fast movements or effects.
That was pretty much the gimmick.

Something weird about Robert Mckimson and to an extent, Bob Clampett, is that their units had the most animators. They would have like 6-8 working on any given cartoon and usually, only half of that or sometimes 5 were credited. Special mention to Fred Jones, Fred Abranz, Rev Chaney, and Anatolle Kirsanoff for never being credited despite being dedicated animators.
 

Steamboat_Bill

Going to beat the record of the Robert E. Lee
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And being known as a name is how that happens. If you're not known as a name you don't exist. Which is why all these Western companies that do animations hire a bunch of Third Worlders they don't have to pay and can treat as subhumans while they make wokeshit for white Americans.
This has been the standard for years. When American cartoons were still animated in America, the animators were generally credited. Of course, some cartoons do credit the overseas guys - Ren and Stimpy did.

But working conditions are better in some countries than in others. South Korean animation studios aren't that bad, while in the Philippines they're all sweatshops.
 

AnOminous

Really?
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Retired Staff
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This has been the standard for years. When American cartoons were still animated in America, the animators were generally credited. Of course, some cartoons do credit the overseas guys - Ren and Stimpy did.

But working conditions are better in some countries than in others. South Korean animation studios aren't that bad, while in the Philippines they're all sweatshops.
I believe AKOM has been mentioned in this thread as one of the few where their animators occasionally are actually credited, although they're more the exception than the rule. It's still in most cases a way of ensuring you have a captive population of nameless drudges. It's not that novel as they used to do this to Americans in America, too, but it's just one way the industry is fuck awful.

Considering how supposedly socially concerned the adult viewers of these children's cartoons are, it's a fairly glaring omission they usually have absolutely fucking nothing to say about the industry's treatment of its workers, but not at all unusual, and it isn't the only industry whose sins they let slide so long as their media output has the proper number of woke inclusion stereotypes.
 

Steamboat_Bill

Going to beat the record of the Robert E. Lee
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Considering how supposedly socially concerned the adult viewers of these children's cartoons are, it's a fairly glaring omission they usually have absolutely fucking nothing to say about the industry's treatment of its workers, but not at all unusual, and it isn't the only industry whose sins they let slide so long as their media output has the proper number of woke inclusion stereotypes.
There was some concern going around about the horrible state of animation studios in the Philippines, but like I said, those places are sweatshops - the worst of the bunch. It's not that bad in South Korea or Taiwan, but not getting credit is still a disservice to the people who work to make those shows.
 

Jewelsmakerguy

Domo Arigato
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I believe AKOM has been mentioned in this thread as one of the few where their animators occasionally are actually credited, although they're more the exception than the rule. It's still in most cases a way of ensuring you have a captive population of nameless drudges. It's not that novel as they used to do this to Americans in America, too, but it's just one way the industry is fuck awful.

Considering how supposedly socially concerned the adult viewers of these children's cartoons are, it's a fairly glaring omission they usually have absolutely fucking nothing to say about the industry's treatment of its workers, but not at all unusual, and it isn't the only industry whose sins they let slide so long as their media output has the proper number of woke inclusion stereotypes.
I meant that more as " Marvel never credited their overseas animators/animation studios unless it was AKOM", their animators were never listed, but the fact the studio itself was put them ahead of Marvel's Japanese contractors when it came to their TV production (Toei did have animators listed for the G.I. Joe and Transformers films, however). Of course, half that was because of their special circumstances involving their founder having been an employee of Marvel's cartoon division.

There was some concern going around about the horrible state of animation studios in the Philippines, but like I said, those places are sweatshops - the worst of the bunch. It's not that bad in South Korea or Taiwan, but not getting credit is still a disservice to the people who work to make those shows.
Based on what I've seen, Top Draw's about the only studio that doesn't look like a complete sweatshop, but they're certainly the exception to the rule.
 
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Trilby

Sorry, but not sorry!
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I meant that more as " Marvel never credited their overseas animators/animation studios unless it was AKOM", their animators were never listed, but the fact the studio itself was put them ahead of Marvel's Japanese contractors when it came to their TV production (Toei did have animators listed for the G.I. Joe and Transformers films, however). Of course, half that was because of their special circumstances involving their founder having been an employee of Marvel's cartoon division.
Yep, Nelson Shin, who started his animation journey with DePatie-Freleng in the 1970's.
 
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Archeops

Whispering seeds of doubt into the ears of troons
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https://mobile.twitter.com/charlyne_yi/status/1234362361986895872
https://archive.li/8F0Cl

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8ybzklpfg6/?igshid=ukjwof8u2ozj

So, Charlyne Yi, the voice of Ruby in Steven Universe and Chloe in We Bare Bears, is accusing Pat McHale and Justin Rubenstein, of Over the Garden Wall fame, of psychological abuse.
Yecch... There's several reasons why she's one of my least favorite SU VAs and this is one of 'em. Extraordinary claims like these require extraordinary evidence and we ALL know where that goes with these kinds of people.

Also, one thing that's extra fishy (at least to me) is that she deleted her Twitter account recently (some of her Tweets showed up in my feed this this week but searching for 'em now yields nothing) but she's keeping her Instagram account up.

EDIT: As of Thursday morning Charlyne's Twitter page is back up, save what you can if you want to see how bad her politisperging gets. You may even get a new personal LOLcow out of it!
 
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Private Pyle

I am...in a world...of shit.
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Yecch... There's several reasons why she's one of my least favorite SU VAs and this is one of 'em. Extraordinary claims like these require extraordinary evidence and we ALL know where that goes with these kinds of people.

Also, one thing that's extra fishy (at least to me) is that she deleted her Twitter account recently (some of her Tweets showed up in my feed this this week but searching for 'em now yields nothing) but she's keeping her Instagram account up.
Yeah just looking around her Instagram shows the kind of social justice nut you’d expect to have a lead role in a show like SU. Which wouldn’t be too bad if she was a good VA but...well, there’s a reason I hate it when Garnet defuses.
Thankfully it seems like this accusation isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. We really don’t need a Toon Wars/Toongate.
 

Archeops

Whispering seeds of doubt into the ears of troons
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Yeah just looking around her Instagram shows the kind of social justice nut you’d expect to have a lead role in a show like SU. Which wouldn’t be too bad if she was a good VA but...well, there’s a reason I hate it when Garnet defuses.
Thankfully it seems like this accusation isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. We really don’t need a Toon Wars/Toongate.
What's really ironic (and something I may have pointed out in our SU thread) is that Charlyne is really the only SU VA that behaves like this on social media (with Grace Rolek and Estelle tieing for a distant-but-still-somewhat-uncomfortable second), the other VAs keep a lot of their politics to themselves and off of Twitter and Instagram. The real insanity can be found when you dig through the accounts of the show's boarders.
It would be ten times as autistic as the other -gates.
I'm not so sure of that, thanks to the occasional spats that happen in the animation industry it feels like it's more "well-ventilated" when compared to the film and vidya industries (especially when you take the former's Weinstein scandal into consideration).
 

Jewelsmakerguy

Domo Arigato
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What's really ironic (and something I may have pointed out in our SU thread) is that Charlyne is really the only SU VA that behaves like this on social media (with Grace Rolek and Estelle tieing for a distant-but-still-somewhat-uncomfortable second), the other VAs keep a lot of their politics to themselves and off of Twitter and Instagram. The real insanity can be found when you dig through the accounts of the show's boarders.
I speculate the only reason the boarders are so unhinged is because they're not the face (or rather, voice) of the series, just the sheltered shut-ins that make the drawings who don't know what social norms are.
 

Archeops

Whispering seeds of doubt into the ears of troons
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I speculate the only reason the boarders are so unhinged is because they're not the face (or rather, voice) of the series, just the sheltered shut-ins that make the drawings who don't know what social norms are.
Pretty much, there's also the ever-present "What writing? It's alphabet people representation that matters!" stance that's running rampant in the industry.
 

Private Pyle

I am...in a world...of shit.
kiwifarms.net
What's really ironic (and something I may have pointed out in our SU thread) is that Charlyne is really the only SU VA that behaves like this on social media (with Grace Rolek and Estelle tieing for a distant-but-still-somewhat-uncomfortable second), the other VAs keep a lot of their politics to themselves and off of Twitter and Instagram. The real insanity can be found when you dig through the accounts of the show's boarders.

I'm not so sure of that, thanks to the occasional spats that happen in the animation industry it feels like it's more "well-ventilated" when compared to the film and vidya industries (especially when you take the former's Weinstein scandal into consideration).
Pretty much, there's also the ever-present "What writing? It's alphabet people representation that matters!" stance that's running rampant in the industry.
How unfortunate to hear about Estelle. But yes, with the advent of social media, you really start to see the craziness that goes behind the scenes of today’s shows. The ego trip of working on a popular show plus their own personal demons and instant thought display is quite the lulzy combo.
 
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