How different would Western civilization look today?
What if Christianity hadn't risen to prominence? -
- Thread starter AnotherForumUser
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I can imagine polytheistic versions of the types of social conservatives we have today. Screaming about how America is a Olympian nation and how we need prayer to Apollo in schools.
Mollybdenum
kiwifarms.net
The world would be a much bleaker place.
Christianity came about at the right place and the right time. The final war of the Roman Republic had just ended and it would be about 200 years of peace before the Crisis of the Third Century shook things up again. During this time, ideas and thoughts could expand rather freely through the Mediterranean. The Roman and Greek religious ideals (it was mostly paganism crap anyway) just weren't cutting it anymore with how educated the peoples were becoming and the imperial court was such a shit show that people were dying for something that made sense morally.
What it was though, was "modern". It was sophisticated and rather than being something about ethnicity (something Judaism failed in) it only really revolved around, God is univeral, God is good and God wants to reward you with eternal paradise. It offered a nice, comforting thought for people, salvation. Pretty much every religion before had some form of afterlife, such as Hades, but those were dumping grounds where everyone who died continued their "existence" in some horrible pit of despair, and nothingness. It offered people a sense of worth in the world, to an extent they had control over their lives, or rather, afterlives. Things made sense, there were answers, not everything you did was for naught.
Take note however, Christianity is a western religion. Many eastern religions which came to prominence around the same time (and plagiarized many of the same things from the ancient pagan ones) offer the same solutions to life. That's why Buddhism is still around, the same world view, moral codes and ideas of a comforting or rejuvenating afterlife.
If it wasn't Christianity, it'd be something similar, just not under Christ. Religion is needed for... simpler people... who can't accept the fact that life ends and that the universe is in itself greater than our understanding if not unfathomable without our lifetime.
Christianity came about at the right place and the right time. The final war of the Roman Republic had just ended and it would be about 200 years of peace before the Crisis of the Third Century shook things up again. During this time, ideas and thoughts could expand rather freely through the Mediterranean. The Roman and Greek religious ideals (it was mostly paganism crap anyway) just weren't cutting it anymore with how educated the peoples were becoming and the imperial court was such a shit show that people were dying for something that made sense morally.
What it was though, was "modern". It was sophisticated and rather than being something about ethnicity (something Judaism failed in) it only really revolved around, God is univeral, God is good and God wants to reward you with eternal paradise. It offered a nice, comforting thought for people, salvation. Pretty much every religion before had some form of afterlife, such as Hades, but those were dumping grounds where everyone who died continued their "existence" in some horrible pit of despair, and nothingness. It offered people a sense of worth in the world, to an extent they had control over their lives, or rather, afterlives. Things made sense, there were answers, not everything you did was for naught.
Take note however, Christianity is a western religion. Many eastern religions which came to prominence around the same time (and plagiarized many of the same things from the ancient pagan ones) offer the same solutions to life. That's why Buddhism is still around, the same world view, moral codes and ideas of a comforting or rejuvenating afterlife.
If it wasn't Christianity, it'd be something similar, just not under Christ. Religion is needed for... simpler people... who can't accept the fact that life ends and that the universe is in itself greater than our understanding if not unfathomable without our lifetime.
i would think without christianity:
whatever the romans had wouldn't have spread as easily (old christianity was easy to get into, for some people it was just frosting on the cake.. that slowly ate the cake)
also spain would have been vastly different.. if i know my history, and i don't, spain had more islam in it than any of it's neighbors (you see it in the language)
i'm trying to picture english as it would look in this world (assuming it exists). would there be more latin in english? less?
without Christianity we would lose a ton of phrases we use ... mostly from the king james bible (fly in ointment, leopard changing spots, bird in the hand worth two in the bush, bottomless pit, all things must pass, god forbid, how the might have fallen, let there be light, milk and honey, love thy neighbor, turned the world upsidedown, etc.)
whatever the romans had wouldn't have spread as easily (old christianity was easy to get into, for some people it was just frosting on the cake.. that slowly ate the cake)
also spain would have been vastly different.. if i know my history, and i don't, spain had more islam in it than any of it's neighbors (you see it in the language)
i'm trying to picture english as it would look in this world (assuming it exists). would there be more latin in english? less?
without Christianity we would lose a ton of phrases we use ... mostly from the king james bible (fly in ointment, leopard changing spots, bird in the hand worth two in the bush, bottomless pit, all things must pass, god forbid, how the might have fallen, let there be light, milk and honey, love thy neighbor, turned the world upsidedown, etc.)
Yeah, there would be something that would take up the place of Christianity. It would no doubt have some people fighting in war over a plot of holy land in another country. IIRC, I did remember hearing about Zoroastrianism or the religion that had Mitra being popular among some Romans before Christianity became popular enough that it eventually became the only legal religion in Rome.
I'm not a history buff, but here are a few thoughts and questions that come to mind:
- What would happen to the Jews? They were basically under Roman rule at this point. I'm not sure how much the development of Christianity helped or hindered their situation.
- Unless I'm mistaken I believe Buddhism was also spreading to the west at this time. Without Christianity to compete with perhaps it would have become the majority religion of the west.
- The Inquisitions probably wouldn't have happened or would have been ordinary wars.
- The Vatican would not be a country.
- Manifest Destiny would not be a driving force behind American Expansion.
- The Dark Ages may have been less dark in the west.
- A lot of books wouldn't have been burned.
- Joan of Arc would just be a crazy person.
- The Salem Witch Trials wouldn't have happened.
- There would be no Mormons.
- Circumcision would not be wide spread in the west.
- The Nazis could not use Catholicism to justify the extermination of the Jews.
- C. S. Lewis wouldn't have written about Narnia.
- The Exorcist, Rosemary's Baby, Ben-Hur and many other classic films would not exist.
- Additionally, Dante's Inferno, Paradise Lost and many other classic works of literature would not exist.
- You could always buy beer on Sundays.
- But you might not get Sundays off.
- Christmas, Easter and Halloween would still exist in some fashion, but might not be as wide spread.
- Christian Weston Chandler would be named something else, probably Mitch.
I may add more as I think of them.
- What would happen to the Jews? They were basically under Roman rule at this point. I'm not sure how much the development of Christianity helped or hindered their situation.
- Unless I'm mistaken I believe Buddhism was also spreading to the west at this time. Without Christianity to compete with perhaps it would have become the majority religion of the west.
- The Inquisitions probably wouldn't have happened or would have been ordinary wars.
- The Vatican would not be a country.
- Manifest Destiny would not be a driving force behind American Expansion.
- The Dark Ages may have been less dark in the west.
- A lot of books wouldn't have been burned.
- Joan of Arc would just be a crazy person.
- The Salem Witch Trials wouldn't have happened.
- There would be no Mormons.
- Circumcision would not be wide spread in the west.
- The Nazis could not use Catholicism to justify the extermination of the Jews.
- C. S. Lewis wouldn't have written about Narnia.
- The Exorcist, Rosemary's Baby, Ben-Hur and many other classic films would not exist.
- Additionally, Dante's Inferno, Paradise Lost and many other classic works of literature would not exist.
- You could always buy beer on Sundays.
- But you might not get Sundays off.
- Christmas, Easter and Halloween would still exist in some fashion, but might not be as wide spread.
- Christian Weston Chandler would be named something else, probably Mitch.
I may add more as I think of them.
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H
HG 400
Guest
kiwifarms.net
Everyone would be baby rapists and go to hell.
fun fact about christmas.
christmas as we know it now (a widespread "good christian" holiday) is relatively new.
the details are muddled, but it was a bigger deal in mainland europe (around germany) but in the anglosphere it was just either ignored or demonized.
then 'a christmas carol' came out and shit was changed.
Richard Dawkins would likely never have become famous, meaning that we probably wouldn't use the word "meme".
Absent a strong secular government system and scientific method, it is likely that Judaism or Islam would've risen in its stead. If it wasn't either of those religions, it would be a multitude of indigineous beliefs.
oh shit, without christianity there wouldn't be dante's inferno.
to put this in perspective
english has the canterbury tales
spanish has don quixote
italian has dante's inferno
it's a huge deal
also without that we wouldn't have EDGY dante
i think if a singular religion didn't spread across europe, there wouldn't be a single political europe but 2 or 3 europes.
Obviously we'd all live in a technologically advanced atheist society without any brainwashed sheeple who worship an imaginary sky wizard
Richard Dawkins would likely never have become famous, meaning that we probably wouldn't use the word "meme".
That's it.
I have to go back in time. I have to stop the memes.
Judaism, Buddhism, and all the different belief systems that are prevalent in African countries would be what the average person would be a part of. I also believe that Scientology would still exist in some form but under another name or something. If you're not part of any of those, the logic that's used for all those multilevel marketing scams would still be a thing unfortunately, but there would possibly be a slightly larger secular population depending on the areas you look at. In other words, sort of similar to how things are set up now.
Although no Christianity probably means no Islam, seeing as how Mohammed was likely turned on to monotheism by a relative who was a Christian monk.
Likely not Judaism. That's a religion closely linked with ethnicity and was a minority religion even in the Roman period. Part of Christianity's growth was due to it being a more open, accepting religion to converts. Even today, conversion to Judaism is a controversial subject among jews. Islam's a little more questionable - there's some speculation that Mohammed was inspired by contact between Christians and pagan Arab tribes. Without that contact, would he have had the inspiration to found Islam? But there aren't a lot of sources for that period and that sort of thinking is the kind likely to get you jihaded.
Like @Cuddlebug said, I think it's one of those things that's just too impossible to say definitively. Christianity was a huge unifying force throughout most of the middle ages in Europe, the influence of which the world still feels.
The Dark Ages being a time of anti-science persecution is a myth begun by Renaissance philosophers with an axe to grind and carried on by Enlightenment writers who wanted to make a show of just how un-religious they were. Most historians of the period use it in a very specific context (there's a noticeable decline in written records from the period compared to before and after, so the period is "dark" - and usually in some regions compared to others), and even more just don't use it at all.
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