Nah he'd never have gotten in power. The UK was fully Jewed even before WW2.
What if Hitler and the Nazis never rose to power? -
- Thread starter ToroidalBoat
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Sister services, email, and search will continue to be negatively effected by the attacks. I made a thread to talk about it, if you're into networking.
It was generally believed that Weimar Germany would go full Communist without a party like the Nazis to prevent that. This doesn't neccesarily mean that Germany would have sided with the Soviets though as its unlikely the Weimar leadership would have wanted to accept a relationship as a junior partner to the bigger and more threatening Soviet Union. Commie Germany would probably still have had revanchist tendencies and sought to take Bohemia and Austria over, as well as Poland which potentially could have been divided between them and the USSR.
From there its anyone's guess, though the Commie Germans may have been more hesitant to attack the Soviets which could have brought Europe to a standstill. Either way Germany itself will still be a flashpoint and will eventually turn back to militarism. Germany's ambitions were not purely the product of the Nazi ideology; the territories they conquered during World War 2 were integral to consolidating Germany's position in Europe due to their geography and resources.
From there its anyone's guess, though the Commie Germans may have been more hesitant to attack the Soviets which could have brought Europe to a standstill. Either way Germany itself will still be a flashpoint and will eventually turn back to militarism. Germany's ambitions were not purely the product of the Nazi ideology; the territories they conquered during World War 2 were integral to consolidating Germany's position in Europe due to their geography and resources.
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Nothing would of changed except for the Soviet bloc having more or less land during the cold war. Or it could be like Red Alert.
Fucking love those games so chessy wish EA would remake RA2 game is one of the best rts of all time.
Jewish Porn Hoe
kiwifarms.net
Consider the following things:
The Versailles treaty regime that would die. 100%. Even the republican governments of Germany were preparing to violate it, considering they ran secret tanker and pilot schools (Kama and Lipezk) as well proving grounds in partnership with the USSR, farmed out naval R&D to shell firms in the Netherlands, built passenger and freight planes with bomber convertibility in mind and had much higher officer to enlisted ratio to absorb a rapid expansion of the army.
Germany would've also either ended up with a right-wing Presidential Dictatorship (probably involving parties like the DNVP and the "Red Prussians" like von Schleicher) or a Connunist People's Republic.
If Germany goes commie it would be much less formidable because the place would bleed talent, e.g. given how much of the military elite were nobles and especially Prussian junkers. They sure as hell wouldn't be hot about land reform stripping them of their estates even if they're unprofitable.
Also Commie Germany would go after the Jews because they were bourgeois as fuck.
Reunification with Austria is iffy but could potentially happen faster than IRL; the Nazis did sponsor a coup attempt there shortly after coming to power that ended with the chancellor being shot dead.
This really cooled relations between the countries.
Other random thoughts:
Japan would still go to war against China. The China Lobby in turn would try to get Roosevelt to set the US on a collision course with Japan.
This is a big unknown considering Japan could not safely go after the resource rich European colonies if there is no war in Europe and they never receive the intelligence carried on the Automedon.
Examples for potential flashpoints in Europe would be:
The Danzig question,
The question of the German minorities in Poland and Czechoslovakia
Post-Austro-Hungarian borders (Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania et claming parts of each others territories).
The Versailles treaty regime that would die. 100%. Even the republican governments of Germany were preparing to violate it, considering they ran secret tanker and pilot schools (Kama and Lipezk) as well proving grounds in partnership with the USSR, farmed out naval R&D to shell firms in the Netherlands, built passenger and freight planes with bomber convertibility in mind and had much higher officer to enlisted ratio to absorb a rapid expansion of the army.
Germany would've also either ended up with a right-wing Presidential Dictatorship (probably involving parties like the DNVP and the "Red Prussians" like von Schleicher) or a Connunist People's Republic.
If Germany goes commie it would be much less formidable because the place would bleed talent, e.g. given how much of the military elite were nobles and especially Prussian junkers. They sure as hell wouldn't be hot about land reform stripping them of their estates even if they're unprofitable.
Also Commie Germany would go after the Jews because they were bourgeois as fuck.
Reunification with Austria is iffy but could potentially happen faster than IRL; the Nazis did sponsor a coup attempt there shortly after coming to power that ended with the chancellor being shot dead.
This really cooled relations between the countries.
Other random thoughts:
Japan would still go to war against China. The China Lobby in turn would try to get Roosevelt to set the US on a collision course with Japan.
This is a big unknown considering Japan could not safely go after the resource rich European colonies if there is no war in Europe and they never receive the intelligence carried on the Automedon.
Examples for potential flashpoints in Europe would be:
The Danzig question,
The question of the German minorities in Poland and Czechoslovakia
Post-Austro-Hungarian borders (Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania et claming parts of each others territories).
Command & Conquer, baby
WW2 would have been against the Soviets.
Spain probably falls to communism without German and Italian support for Franco.
Hungary, Romania, and Czechoslovakia try to hold the Soviets at bay while the British and French do faggy 'peace in our time' diplomacy with Stalin (sell out central Europe).
ArnoldPalmer
kiwifarms.net
I dunno, give it like five years and we'll get to find out for ourselves.
They would never have had the money for the space race if Nazism didn't happen. This in turn means that no matter what, they never would have had the money, because the Nazis lost. Remember, all this started because of degeneracy and severe, Zimbabwe-tier economic recession. There'd probably be a couple more jews though.
They would never have had the money for the space race if Nazism didn't happen. This in turn means that no matter what, they never would have had the money, because the Nazis lost. Remember, all this started because of degeneracy and severe, Zimbabwe-tier economic recession. There'd probably be a couple more jews though.
Man I read that as "Austria" not "Australia" somehow and damned if I wasn't scratchin' my fool head there for a bit!
On 20 January 1933, Schleicher missed one of his best chances to save his government. Wilhelm Frick—who was in charge of the Nazi Reichstag delegation when Hermann Göring was not present—suggested to the Reichstag's agenda committee that the Reichstag go into recess until the next budget could be presented, which would have been some time in the spring. Had this happened, by the time the recess ended, Schleicher would have been reaping the benefits of the public works projects that his government had begun in January, and in-fighting within the NSDAP would have worsened. Schleicher had his Chief of Staff, Erwin Planck, tell the Reichstag that the government wanted the recess to be as short as possible, which led to the recess being extended only to 31 January as Schleicher believed mistakenly that the Reichstag would not dare bring a motion of no-confidence against him as that would mean another election.
Lets say instead that Schleicher lets the Reichstag go into a long recess, making Frick fail the fuhrer and Goring's absence alienate him from Hitler. This makes Nazi party suffer from internal divisions, with many members disappointed that Hitler had been unable to obtain the chancellorship the previous November & leadership angry with each other. Schleicher logically calls for an election, after the economic improvements benefited him rather than Hitler, and so Hitler loses seats from 196/584 to only 133 of the 584 seats but still remaining the single largest party in the Reichstag. The SA grow ever more violent, the leadership begin to fracture within the NSDAP, and the membership are increasingly distraught at not having yet control of Germany and seeing it slip further away from their ideal.
After June 30, 1934, a series of arrests were carried out on the orders of Werner von Blomberg in the name of the chancellery throughout Germany, with leading Nazis, Communists and Social Democrats being arrested to prevent what became known to history as the Röhm Putsch or the 2nd Hitler Putsch. Hindenburg eventually dies, and the Presidency moves to Schleicher but he does not merge the offices nor does the Communist Party burn the Reichstag strangely..
Ferdinand von Bredow becomes the new chancellor, largely an empty suit with Schleicher running both offices as he pleases. However Ferdinand von Bredow was the former head of the Abwehr (the military intelligence service) in the Reich Defence Ministry ensuring that if anything had changed since 1918, military command would not only remain with the professional officers corps but more importantly the military had transitioned from its traditional "state within the state" status into a near open Military Junta. Eugen Ott, Wilhelm Adam, Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord, and Werner von Alvensleben all become part of his close inner cabinet.
However in France historically the elections of 1932 had resulted in a victory for the two largest parties of the left, the Marxist SFIO and the Radical-Socialist PRRRS, as well as several smaller parties ideologically close to Radicalism (an electoral pact known as the Cartel des Gauches); the Communist Party had run on its own, accusing the Socialists of social-fascism and opposing the subsequent centre-left governments. However, major differences between the SFIO and PRRRS prevented them from forming a cabinet together, as all had expected, leaving France governed by a series of short-lived cabinets formed exclusively of the six Radical parties.
The Socialist Party reliably granted its confidence to these cabinets but fundamentally disagreed with their budget cuts, and the various small liberal centre-right parties who agreed with the budget cuts refused to support centre-left governments in which they were not represented. With government paralyzed, tensions grew greater and greater both between the different parties in parliament and within public opinion. The tensions finally erupted into the infamous February 6th 1934 crisis in which massive riots by authoritarian paramilitary leagues caused the collapse of the Cartel. The Radical-Socialists and other republican centre-left parties accepted entry into a government dominated by the centre-right (the Democratic Alliance) and hard right (the Republican Federation).
The Republican Federation shifted more and more to the right during the interwar period and it is important to note that it cannot be simply labelled a Christian-democratic party (a label that is more rightly applied to the very small Popular Democratic Party). Its religious-right and ultranationalist wing were strengthened by the election victory of the centre-left in 1924 and the subsequent rise of the anti-parliamentary and nationalist leagues as well as by a generational shift in its leadership. At the same time, the party's smaller Christian-democratic and social Catholic left-wing received a boost from the arrival of the parliamentary Catholics of the Popular Liberal Action. However, the rift in political ethos was shown by the fact that these preferred to sit in a separate parliamentary grouping from the main party (such as the Popular Democratic group, the Alsatian Popular Action group, or Pernot's Social Action group). The Republican Federation was acting as the nexus between parliamentary conservatives and the anti-Republican nationalist right organized in the various far-right paramilitaries and in the ultramonarchist & anti-German Action française. Party members such as Philippe Henriot or Xavier Vallat (both future collaborationists) thus personally served as intermediaries between the leaders of the Republican Federation and the extra-parliamentary right.
In Italy, with the French Right entirely focused on shifting Anti-German & Right Wing, the Stresa Front became a popular-in-France agreement made in Stresa, a town on the banks of Lake Maggiore in Italy, between French Prime Minister Pierre-Étienne Flandin (with Pierre Laval), British Prime Minister Ramsay MacDonald and Italian Prime Minister Benito Mussolini on 14 April 1935. Its aim was to reaffirm the post-war territorial settlements by securing their western borders with Germany and to declare that the independence of Austria "would continue to inspire their common policy". It was in essence a Defence Pact under which Mussolini would agree to go to war alongside France and Britain if Germany remilitarized their Rhineland. The Italo-Soviet Pact would likely have also maintained itself, rather than been broken by Italy due to German interests, where the two agreed to an economic pact supporting industrialisation goals; Italy required access to Soviet oil and coal, while the Soviets were interested in Italian innovations in the aviation, automobile and naval industries. It also sought to ensure security in the Balkans and for a time mutual suspicion of German intentions. Italy would be much slower in Ethiopia, and suffer much less backlash due to the closer relations with France rather than Germany.
In Spain, Britain and France led the policy of non-interference in the Spanish Civil War (1936–39), without a Nazi realigned Italy its likely the result would still be a win by the nationalists due to the disorganized nature of the Republicans. However the Soviet Union, Mexico, and Poland each funded factions with tanks, volunteers, and training. Without an enemy in Nazi Germany, the non-interference treaties would be much weaker and enforcement would be haphazard and half-hearted. It would be much more costly for the nationalists, maybe even with guerrilla warfare waged on an irregular basis by the Spanish Maquis well into following decades. It might be like the IRA and England, always running beneath the surface of things even during the quiet times.
In Britain, Because of the rise of Nazi Germany, the British Union of Fascists became more antisemitic over 1934–35 owing to the growing influence of Nazi sympathisers within the party, such as William Joyce and John Beckett, which provoked the resignation of members such as Dr. Robert Forgan. This antisemitic emphasis and these high-profile resignations resulted in a significant decline in membership, dropping to below 8,000 by the end of 1935. No Nazi Germany means much more Italian & French Fascism rather than German National Socialism. With the Rise of the Stresa Front aligning Italy with the west, and the rise of the Right Wing in France, this would lead the Daily Mail to return to its support for the movement and for some of the alienated middle-class supporters to return. The Public Order Act 1936 never passes, allowing IRA and Sinn Féin demonstrations in the 1970s to stay uniformed. Britain would likely see a minority party like France and Germany well into the 1950s, likely increasing and decreasing with the Communist elements. I doubt the BUF would amount to more than that, but who knows?
America and Japan would still go to war, ironically Germany would be more pro-China given the Chinese-German Military connections. (An adopted son of Republic of China President Chiang Kai-shek served in the Wehrmacht before fighting in the Second Sino-Japanese War and Chinese Civil War. Chiang Wei-kuo commanded a Panzer unit during the 1938 Austrian Anschluss as a Fähnrich, or sergeant officer-candidate, leading a tank into that country; subsequently, he was promoted to Lieutenant of a Panzer unit awaiting to be sent into Poland. Before he was given the mobilization order, he was recalled to China to assist the war effort against the invading Japanese forces.) Japan would be isolated to the point that the Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact might have been expanded to support the two isolated powers. Soviet Oil for Japanese innovations in the aviation, automobile and naval industries, as the soviets did with Italy?
Its hard to say how the world would go to war, Germany would be more isolationist diplomatically but more internationalist economically under Hjalmar Schacht after the economic crisis of 1935–36 pushed him to want to reduce military spending, turn away from autarkic and protectionist policies, and reduce state control in the economy. Germany's Junta might align with anti-fascists in Britain increasingly as France and Italy swing Fascist? The Soviet Union and Japan might carve up China together, with Soviet Oil for Japanese Naval and Aviation innovations much like the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact did to Poland? Greece and Turkey might go to war again? The Balkans might explode pulling Germany into a tense moment against Italo-Soviet Pact, the Stresa Front, and a still demilitarized Rhineland?
Lets say instead that Schleicher lets the Reichstag go into a long recess, making Frick fail the fuhrer and Goring's absence alienate him from Hitler. This makes Nazi party suffer from internal divisions, with many members disappointed that Hitler had been unable to obtain the chancellorship the previous November & leadership angry with each other. Schleicher logically calls for an election, after the economic improvements benefited him rather than Hitler, and so Hitler loses seats from 196/584 to only 133 of the 584 seats but still remaining the single largest party in the Reichstag. The SA grow ever more violent, the leadership begin to fracture within the NSDAP, and the membership are increasingly distraught at not having yet control of Germany and seeing it slip further away from their ideal.
After June 30, 1934, a series of arrests were carried out on the orders of Werner von Blomberg in the name of the chancellery throughout Germany, with leading Nazis, Communists and Social Democrats being arrested to prevent what became known to history as the Röhm Putsch or the 2nd Hitler Putsch. Hindenburg eventually dies, and the Presidency moves to Schleicher but he does not merge the offices nor does the Communist Party burn the Reichstag strangely..
Ferdinand von Bredow becomes the new chancellor, largely an empty suit with Schleicher running both offices as he pleases. However Ferdinand von Bredow was the former head of the Abwehr (the military intelligence service) in the Reich Defence Ministry ensuring that if anything had changed since 1918, military command would not only remain with the professional officers corps but more importantly the military had transitioned from its traditional "state within the state" status into a near open Military Junta. Eugen Ott, Wilhelm Adam, Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord, and Werner von Alvensleben all become part of his close inner cabinet.
However in France historically the elections of 1932 had resulted in a victory for the two largest parties of the left, the Marxist SFIO and the Radical-Socialist PRRRS, as well as several smaller parties ideologically close to Radicalism (an electoral pact known as the Cartel des Gauches); the Communist Party had run on its own, accusing the Socialists of social-fascism and opposing the subsequent centre-left governments. However, major differences between the SFIO and PRRRS prevented them from forming a cabinet together, as all had expected, leaving France governed by a series of short-lived cabinets formed exclusively of the six Radical parties.
The Socialist Party reliably granted its confidence to these cabinets but fundamentally disagreed with their budget cuts, and the various small liberal centre-right parties who agreed with the budget cuts refused to support centre-left governments in which they were not represented. With government paralyzed, tensions grew greater and greater both between the different parties in parliament and within public opinion. The tensions finally erupted into the infamous February 6th 1934 crisis in which massive riots by authoritarian paramilitary leagues caused the collapse of the Cartel. The Radical-Socialists and other republican centre-left parties accepted entry into a government dominated by the centre-right (the Democratic Alliance) and hard right (the Republican Federation).
The Republican Federation shifted more and more to the right during the interwar period and it is important to note that it cannot be simply labelled a Christian-democratic party (a label that is more rightly applied to the very small Popular Democratic Party). Its religious-right and ultranationalist wing were strengthened by the election victory of the centre-left in 1924 and the subsequent rise of the anti-parliamentary and nationalist leagues as well as by a generational shift in its leadership. At the same time, the party's smaller Christian-democratic and social Catholic left-wing received a boost from the arrival of the parliamentary Catholics of the Popular Liberal Action. However, the rift in political ethos was shown by the fact that these preferred to sit in a separate parliamentary grouping from the main party (such as the Popular Democratic group, the Alsatian Popular Action group, or Pernot's Social Action group). The Republican Federation was acting as the nexus between parliamentary conservatives and the anti-Republican nationalist right organized in the various far-right paramilitaries and in the ultramonarchist & anti-German Action française. Party members such as Philippe Henriot or Xavier Vallat (both future collaborationists) thus personally served as intermediaries between the leaders of the Republican Federation and the extra-parliamentary right.
In Italy, with the French Right entirely focused on shifting Anti-German & Right Wing, the Stresa Front became a popular-in-France agreement made in Stresa, a town on the banks of Lake Maggiore in Italy, between French Prime Minister Pierre-Étienne Flandin (with Pierre Laval), British Prime Minister Ramsay MacDonald and Italian Prime Minister Benito Mussolini on 14 April 1935. Its aim was to reaffirm the post-war territorial settlements by securing their western borders with Germany and to declare that the independence of Austria "would continue to inspire their common policy". It was in essence a Defence Pact under which Mussolini would agree to go to war alongside France and Britain if Germany remilitarized their Rhineland. The Italo-Soviet Pact would likely have also maintained itself, rather than been broken by Italy due to German interests, where the two agreed to an economic pact supporting industrialisation goals; Italy required access to Soviet oil and coal, while the Soviets were interested in Italian innovations in the aviation, automobile and naval industries. It also sought to ensure security in the Balkans and for a time mutual suspicion of German intentions. Italy would be much slower in Ethiopia, and suffer much less backlash due to the closer relations with France rather than Germany.
In Spain, Britain and France led the policy of non-interference in the Spanish Civil War (1936–39), without a Nazi realigned Italy its likely the result would still be a win by the nationalists due to the disorganized nature of the Republicans. However the Soviet Union, Mexico, and Poland each funded factions with tanks, volunteers, and training. Without an enemy in Nazi Germany, the non-interference treaties would be much weaker and enforcement would be haphazard and half-hearted. It would be much more costly for the nationalists, maybe even with guerrilla warfare waged on an irregular basis by the Spanish Maquis well into following decades. It might be like the IRA and England, always running beneath the surface of things even during the quiet times.
In Britain, Because of the rise of Nazi Germany, the British Union of Fascists became more antisemitic over 1934–35 owing to the growing influence of Nazi sympathisers within the party, such as William Joyce and John Beckett, which provoked the resignation of members such as Dr. Robert Forgan. This antisemitic emphasis and these high-profile resignations resulted in a significant decline in membership, dropping to below 8,000 by the end of 1935. No Nazi Germany means much more Italian & French Fascism rather than German National Socialism. With the Rise of the Stresa Front aligning Italy with the west, and the rise of the Right Wing in France, this would lead the Daily Mail to return to its support for the movement and for some of the alienated middle-class supporters to return. The Public Order Act 1936 never passes, allowing IRA and Sinn Féin demonstrations in the 1970s to stay uniformed. Britain would likely see a minority party like France and Germany well into the 1950s, likely increasing and decreasing with the Communist elements. I doubt the BUF would amount to more than that, but who knows?
America and Japan would still go to war, ironically Germany would be more pro-China given the Chinese-German Military connections. (An adopted son of Republic of China President Chiang Kai-shek served in the Wehrmacht before fighting in the Second Sino-Japanese War and Chinese Civil War. Chiang Wei-kuo commanded a Panzer unit during the 1938 Austrian Anschluss as a Fähnrich, or sergeant officer-candidate, leading a tank into that country; subsequently, he was promoted to Lieutenant of a Panzer unit awaiting to be sent into Poland. Before he was given the mobilization order, he was recalled to China to assist the war effort against the invading Japanese forces.) Japan would be isolated to the point that the Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact might have been expanded to support the two isolated powers. Soviet Oil for Japanese innovations in the aviation, automobile and naval industries, as the soviets did with Italy?
Its hard to say how the world would go to war, Germany would be more isolationist diplomatically but more internationalist economically under Hjalmar Schacht after the economic crisis of 1935–36 pushed him to want to reduce military spending, turn away from autarkic and protectionist policies, and reduce state control in the economy. Germany's Junta might align with anti-fascists in Britain increasingly as France and Italy swing Fascist? The Soviet Union and Japan might carve up China together, with Soviet Oil for Japanese Naval and Aviation innovations much like the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact did to Poland? Greece and Turkey might go to war again? The Balkans might explode pulling Germany into a tense moment against Italo-Soviet Pact, the Stresa Front, and a still demilitarized Rhineland?
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Yeah not going to happen, germany would have entered the war in exchange for german lands. The war would have been over in a couple of months with the total destruction of the Soviet armies in Ukraine and in east Poland. unlimited oil and no bombing would have been a massive difference for germany. there would also been millions of willing eastern europeans that only needed guns to fight the russians.
The swastika becomes just another symbol with vaguely Asian luck connotations and Lemmy has to find another regimes remnants to collect and get people tilted about.
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