What if you just don't buy a home? - aka. "Housing market is dogshit" general

NoReturn

CEO Wash & Smash llc.
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I don’t understand why you yanks don’t all own homes, property is dirt cheap over there compared to here. I assume it’s to do with your property taxes which seems a bit of a rinse as a concept.
Property taxes
Welfare gap
Issues with family wealth
Proximity to jobs
Country size affecting national average
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Lichen Bark

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Nov 19, 2020
Some people aren't clear on this, but you are ALWAYS renting your property "that you own" from the gov't, try not paying your property taxes and see what happens.

Most people I know have gotten money from their parents to purchase a home, or have been given a home, from said parents. The covid stuff has royally screwed up properties that would normally be reasonable for younger buyers. You have "work from homers" leaving cities and running to rural areas. Normally you could land an older home away from the cities, but now it's totally different.

Owning a home is more than just mortgage payments, it's electricity, municipal water in some cases, municipal sewer fees, gas bills etc. If it has a well, is the water good? Does the roof need replacing? Was it built in the 50s and as asbestos? Does is have aluminum wiring that the insurance company wants you to remediate? Does the house have Radon? Does it have an old oil furnace that needs replacing along with the environmental cleanup costs that can go with that? Are there nice mature trees in the front yard, did their roots grow into your septic pipes/foundation? Do you need to deal with a Home Owners Association? Did you know private home inspectors are mostly garbage? If something breaks it's on you. If you're renting, all maintenance, and incidental repairs are done by the landlord, so you're saving some headaches there. If racoons get into your attic and turn into into a biohazard zone you don't deal with that. Some people don't want to deal with repairs.

I wouldn't say forget renting, but if you are renting make sure you're investing. If I was single I would probably rent as cheap as I could find (or stay at home) and invest. If you have a partner in crime, owning is less onerous. Building a home is more expensive than buying a home, and you can easily go over budget. You also need some connections when building, like people who have built homes, or a family member you can go to for advice with experience in some aspect of construction, you'll need outside advice. When buying a home having friends/family look at the house you are purchasing can be invaluable, and usually doesn't cost you anything, maybe a lunch. You'd be surprised what people notice walking through a home. Maybe uncle Pete looks into the attic and sees something he doesn't like.

If I had my investing plan down pat, with an account that is slowly growing year after year, and I had an extra 30k to play with maybe I would look for a home. If I just had 30k in savings and nothing else, I don't know if I would try and buy. Is my job very secure? Can I handle it if interest rates go up? How is my health? If I get sick can I keep paying the mortgage? While we are on the topic of owning a home, what about retirement? Does your employer have a nice pension plan for you? Homes appreciate sure, but you don't want to end up like one of those old people with a reverse mortgage.

If only Japan would sell foreigners rural land, my dreams of owning a cheap Japanese farm could be realized.

Joke Strategy: Marry, have kid(s), divorce, and then take the home in the divorce(assuming you're of the right sex).
 

NoReturn

CEO Wash & Smash llc.
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If only Japan would sell foreigners rural land, my dreams of owning a cheap Japanese farm could be realized.
Wanna live that comfy Wolf Children life.
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cybertoaster

Chairman of the mammary regulation committee
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Dec 3, 2020
Wait until the housing market crashes and houses go for cheap, its coming.
Consider that the likes of blackrock wont be forced to do a firesale like homeowners did after 2008, they can keep their properties until the price goes up again after all the government will use your tax money to bail them out again and again.
 

Cybertonia

The original communist meme
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Dec 10, 2021
There may be no shame in it, but there's also little to no benefit. Of the over-50 people you know now, who is doing better; the people who bought their own house, or the people who are perpetual renters? 9/10, it'll be the home buyers, even if they live under identical income conditions.
Frankly, it's 50-50. I know old people who benefited from over a decade of near zero interest rates and central bank moneyprinting that inflated the value of everything they own, and I know old people who never financially came back from the subprime crisis and today don't have two nickels to rub together.

Again, like I said, the benefit is limited liability. Something breaks? I don't pay for it. Neighborhood nigs out and gets shitty? I end my lease and fuck off somewhere else. I have the ability to dust my hands and walk away.
 

Overly Serious

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Oct 20, 2019
DamnWolves! said:
@Overly Serious I can't directly quote you for some reason. Depends on how much you make, honestly. I appreciate that the average person makes less than $100k a year, but perhaps those people should reconsider a housing-based get rich quick scheme. Slight PL, but the average house in my area is something like $475,000, and a house you'd want to live in is closer to $1M. I don't see housing as a big gamble; not with our existing immigration policy. Obviously, neither does Blackrock, given they're buying all the supply. If you want a house to live in, now is a pretty good time to buy one in my opinion.
Quoting doesn't work for very long posts, that's why you couldn't. Anyway, I'm sticking to my guns on this one. You say "depends on how much you make," well no shit. But I think in the context of the OP and frankly nearly all of us, gambling with figures in the $100K region is a big no no. I repeat, there's no guarantee that you can get back what you paid for the land, nor that you can do so. And the odds will rarely be in your favour. Sure - you might buy a plot of land that suddenly some developer wants for part of a major project or which gets zoned and suddenly shoots up in value. But the promising prospects have mostly been gobbled up by big development firms which CAN gamble with $100K and if they want to sell it off later can just stick it on the backlog for ten years until it recoups their investment. Even suggesting to a regular person that buying a plot of land might be worth it because it could shoot up in value is bad advice. You also in your reply seemed to have segued into talking about buying houses when my reply was to a point about buying land.
 

NoReturn

CEO Wash & Smash llc.
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Joined
Aug 28, 2019
Quoting doesn't work for very long posts, that's why you couldn't. Anyway, I'm sticking to my guns on this one. You say "depends on how much you make," well no shit. But I think in the context of the OP and frankly nearly all of us, gambling with figures in the $100K region is a big no no. I repeat, there's no guarantee that you can get back what you paid for the land, nor that you can do so. And the odds will rarely be in your favour. Sure - you might buy a plot of land that suddenly some developer wants for part of a major project or which gets zoned and suddenly shoots up in value. But the promising prospects have mostly been gobbled up by big development firms which CAN gamble with $100K and if they want to sell it off later can just stick it on the backlog for ten years until it recoups their investment. Even suggesting to a regular person that buying a plot of land might be worth it because it could shoot up in value is bad advice. You also in your reply seemed to have segued into talking about buying houses when my reply was to a point about buying land.
There's also imminent domain laws in the US which means that people can just take your land if they feel like it. That's what that standoff with all the cowboys was about a while back.
 

DamnWolves!

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Jan 30, 2021
I repeat, there's no guarantee that you can get back what you paid for the land, nor that you can do so. And the odds will rarely be in your favour. Sure - you might buy a plot of land that suddenly some developer wants for part of a major project or which gets zoned and suddenly shoots up in value. But the promising prospects have mostly been gobbled up by big development firms which CAN gamble with $100K and if they want to sell it off later can just stick it on the backlog for ten years until it recoups their investment.
Sorry, I thought we were talking about buying a house in general, not buying land on the off chance that a developer wants it someday. Guess I lost the plot somewhere in there. DRINK! rate me if you want (because I was probably drinking).

We can agree that buying a standard suburban house is a gamble under only the most extreme circumstances or poorest due dilligence practices, and that you are much more likely to make money buying a house than lose money, yeah?

Inventorying land is obviously a gamble. I knew a couple that made a killing by buying a big plot at a major intersection that was rural when I was a kid but was smack dab in the middle of suburbia by the time they sold it--they ran a driving range out of the land until it could be sold, which is a solid tactic. In cities like NYC, developers do the same thing with land and parking lots.
 

Save the Loli

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Jul 1, 2017
According to a few websites, in many states (not the expensive ones) it should be possible to build a 1000-1400 sq.ft. home within 50 minutes from a decent-sized city for under $150K, including the cost of the land. Just searching "cost of new construction dollars per square feet" brings up $100-150/sq.ft. as the common estimate for 2021/22. The price appears to have risen this year and last because of the supply chain issues (including things like lumber) which are affecting the construction sector.

How much of this is accurate information?
 

NoReturn

CEO Wash & Smash llc.
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Joined
Aug 28, 2019
According to a few websites, in many states (not the expensive ones) it should be possible to build a 1000-1400 sq.ft. home within 50 minutes from a decent-sized city for under $150K, including the cost of the land. Just searching "cost of new construction dollars per square feet" brings up $100-150/sq.ft. as the common estimate for 2021/22. The price appears to have risen this year and last because of the supply chain issues (including things like lumber) which are affecting the construction sector.

How much of this is accurate information?
Which websites are you looking at?
 

AnaphylacticShock

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Dec 18, 2019
I've known some wealthy people who never owned their own home. Owning doesn't work for everybody. I owned once, and I've decided I don't want to own again. Home repairs are fucking expensive, and you can count on something else going wrong or popping up in addition to what you originally thought was the only thing that needed repair. So more money...It'll be stupid shit too, like your neighbors yard isn't graded properly and the rain water that should be flowing out to the curb starts collecting on your property and busts up your sidewalk (true story). That couple of thousand to fix could have been spent on something way better, like a vacation. And hopefully you have that money in reserve else you're SOL and the problem will just get worse and worse until it will cost 20 grand to fix instead of the 4 grand it would have costs you in the beginning.
 

NoReturn

CEO Wash & Smash llc.
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I've known some wealthy people who never owned their own home.
What did they do instead? Is there an equation you can use to figure out if it's a good decision?
Like, let's say I pay $X for rent, and I can invest a chunk of change each month into something else instead (e.g. stocks, crypto, metals). What would my return on investment have to be to make it worthwhile?
(Sorry if the answer is obvious, I'm not so good with the maths.)
And hopefully you have that money in reserve else you're SOL and the problem will just get worse and worse until it will cost 20 grand to fix instead of the 4 grand it would have costs you in the beginning.
And I imagine you'd need a repair budget as well, right? Because you'll find yourself in situations where you can't afford $4k at once so you end up paying that $20k over 10 years or whatever.
 

AnaphylacticShock

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Dec 18, 2019
What did they do instead? Is there an equation you can use to figure out if it's a good decision?
Like, let's say I pay $X for rent, and I can invest a chunk of change each month into something else instead (e.g. stocks, crypto, metals). What would my return on investment have to be to make it worthwhile?
(Sorry if the answer is obvious, I'm not so good with the maths.)

And I imagine you'd need a repair budget as well, right? Because you'll find yourself in situations where you can't afford $4k at once so you end up paying that $20k over 10 years or whatever.
Well, I know one of them made most of their wealth through the stock market...and just saving up from a regular 9-5. The other guy never got married or had kids and was a small business owner who wouldn't have had the time or know-how to take care of a house of his own. He did eventually inherit his parent's condo. I'm not sure if there is an equation...maybe someone else more knowledgeable on the subject would have an answer to that. Yes, having money in the bank set aside for home repairs is important. I personally would rather spend my money on other things. But I'm not trying to discourage home ownership for anyone just because I had a bad experience...many people have done very well with real estate.
 

Save the Loli

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Jul 1, 2017
Ah, that's misleading. Look up actual home builder companies under "new construction" on Zillow for a more realistic estimate.
You mean the map showing new construction? That looks more expensive because a lot of those houses are being furnished with expensive things because if you're dropping 250K+ why not go all out? Or they have luxuries like a garage which adds to the cost. There's going to be a bias toward the listing showing more expensive houses because most houses built are going to be in expensive suburbs on expensive land. But in general it's following the "$100 - $150 per sq.ft." estimate (at the higher end, nationwide the average is $134/sq.ft. but I can't find where I read that now), and places further away (but still within 50-60 minutes of most cities) adhere closer to that rule.
 

Ponzo

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Sep 13, 2021
The great state of FL has some decent homes for under $150k but you have to be realistic and know that you won't find one in Boca Raton or Naples but there are plenty around Ocala, Jacksonville and The Panhandle. A lot changed since i left in january last year, real estate prices have gone up in states like florida and texas and buying a house right now might be risky if shits about to crash.

Heres a good example, Bartow, Fl, Crime Rating B-


I don't know if thats "trailer"-looking for you but lets be real, even mansions in the US are made from wood and drywall.
 

Jacknife

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Sep 9, 2021
Too many boomers don't want their children to inherent their houses. Too many. Their house is literally their retirement plan.
I mean these two things dont necessarily exclude each other. The home of my parents is their retirement plan too I guess, but just in the sense that it means that they dont have to pay rent as they are aging.