What is the difference between "state capitalism" and TRUE and HONEST socialism/communism? -

[Iwasamwillbe]

I have seen apologetics for socialism and communism by arguing that failed and tyrannical governments that would otherwise be considered socialistic aren't actually socialist, but "state capitalist".

On the flip side, I have seen arguments in favor of otherwise socialistic governments, such as the USSR and China, by claiming that they weren't/aren't actually socialist, but "state capitalist".

Yet when I look into state capitalism, it doesn't seem any different from regular socialism. So what distinguishes state capitalism from socialism?

 

[Clop]

Complicated shit condensed into two words doesn't explain what the system actually does, that's your answer to most gripes where dummies use small words in short sentences to try to sound smart talking about the really big stuff.

 

[Terrorist]

China is legit "state capitalist" because it's got a very powerful market economy (one that kinda has us by the balls in fact), but one that is centrally planned. That is obviously against the main thrust of communism (though it could fit certain ideas of socialism/social democracy), so it makes sense some commies wouldn't like it.

USSR was not that I know of. Most internet commies' beef with Stalin is him being a big mean stupidhead who used state power to do wrong bad things that hurt their fee fees, instead of a live-and-let-live anarchist type.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

True Marxism, as I see it from a Marxist perspective, inherently relies on the proletariat acting in its own self interest. In practice... this never happens. Very rarely do the proletariat have access to actual, well-explained communist doctrine, and in the cases where they do, most Western countries have their lower class inoculated against communism due to the rigors of the Cold War, thus making it necessary to rebrand.

The failure of Communism has been men, and it will continue to be men until the end of days. Communism, in its truest, basest form, relies on man caring for his fellow man's well-being over his own, and for the well being of all society over his own personal profit. In an apartment with four friends, this is difficult, but possible. The same for a small commune, or a small municipality. In something as large as a state, there will always be bad actors scheming to rise to the top, and eventually, someone will. You will have a Stalin, or a Mao, or a Pol Pot, or a Xi.

TLDR, Communism runs on the Just World fallacy. The only way for true Marxist ideology to gain any sort of foothold is to spit on the grave of Karl Marx and integrate slowly into capitalism, destroying what does not work to the benefit of the proletariat and rebuilding it in his favor.