What the Fuck is Wrong With the Left & Right? - From an Outsider's Perspective

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Lemmingwise

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I meant the conspiracies like how Bush was involved with 9/11 directly and that it was an inside job (or that the Jews did it
I wonder how people can think this when there were 5 dancing israelis that were arrested, their van had explosives inside, two belonged to mossad, and the higher authorities then said they had to be released so they were never charged.

The Foia documents show that they were employed by "the urban moving company" and the address was an empty building. The owner left for israel in the same week as 9/11 and could never be questioned as a result.

Also all fighter jets that would normally be able to intercept something like this were on training missions that day so they couldn't be there in time.

How can people ever have come to the conclusion of a conspiracy between israel and american government?

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Haim Arlosoroff

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jewelsmakerguy said:
What the Fuck is Wrong With the Left & Right?
Imagine you are trying to hold two intense chemical reactions in sealed jars, and you know they're getting hotter and hotter, vibrating and whistling out any crack in the jarware. That is the two political movements, the jars are the parties and the chemicals are the bases reacting within each other and by their environment. Its a little hard to explain why, but take it from me: the first and most important lesson in understanding American Politics is a lesson which everyone who has found themselves under a dictatorship knows which is that you should never trust the official narrative because power writes what it wants to hear others believe instead of the truth. Once you understand that you cannot wholly believe any organized take on the average American you begin to see the problem.

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The media in every society is an army of a sort. The readers are the conscripts, the journalists are the officers, and the editors and owners are the political commissars and the Great Leaders respectively. Once you can see a point-of-view where the media of America is the furthest thing from America, and that the worst of their lies resembles the truth the closest, then you can begin to truly understand how occupied the non-readers and alternate readerships are under the rulership of The Powers That Be within America. Its an odd realization, but it explains why you cannot find a happy voter today but everyone lining up for their politics regardless.

Real power has only ever been the perception of who has power, apparent choices and control of what is morally the issues of the day are thereby everything to Washington and so they are captured up by the usefulness of the system I am describing. The media and Washington lifers are mutually beneficial to each other. The public offices legitimize journalists who play ball with access and exclusives, while journalists also legitimize political issues and the elites who offer solutions. Washington can make careers, and Journalists can make political capital for pet projects or prestige for politicians themselves. The internet has muddled this, and by this muddling the jars begin to shake and heat revealing how uncomfortable the average person is within the two party system.

In recent times, I have noticed that in the US, the Left and the Right have jumped far off the deep end then they should have. And more specifically, where they stand on certain matters. Me being Canadian, and thus an outsider looking in on this mess, I have to wonder just what in the mother of God happened to both sides of the US political system. Especially among the people who support the Dems and Republicans.
A party system is a concept in comparative political science concerning the system of government by political parties in a democratic country. The idea is that political parties have basic similarities: they control the government, have a stable base of mass popular support, and create internal mechanisms for controlling funding, information and nominations.

PartyVotes-Presidents.png
The First Party System (1792–1824: 32 years) of the United States featured the "Federalist Party" and the "Anti-federalist Party" (which became known as the "Democratic-Republican Party" and was sometimes called "Jeffersonian Republican"). The beginnings of the American two-party system emerged from George Washington's immediate circle of advisers, which included Alexander Hamilton and James Madison. Hamilton and Madison, who wrote the aforementioned Federalist Papers against political factions, ended up being the core leaders in this emerging party system. It was the split camps of Federalists, given rise with Hamilton as a leader, and Democratic-Republicans, with Madison and Thomas Jefferson at the helm of this political faction, that created the environment in which partisanship, once distasteful, came to being.
  • The Federalist Party grew from the national network of Washington's Secretary of the Treasury, Alexander Hamilton, who favored a strong united central government, close ties to Britain, a centralized banking system, and close links between the government and men of wealth.
  • The Democratic-Republican Party was founded by Madison and Thomas Jefferson, who strongly opposed Hamilton's agenda. The Jeffersonians came to power in 1800 and the Federalists were too elitist to compete effectively. The Federalists survived in the Northeast, but their refusal to support the War of 1812 verged on secession and was a devastating blow when the war ended well. The Era of Good Feelings under President James Monroe (1816–1824) marked the end of the First Party System and a brief period in which partisanship was minimal.
The Second Party System (1828–1854: 26 years) followed the splintering of the Democratic-Republican Party. Two major parties dominated the political landscape: the Whig Party, led by Henry Clay, that grew from the National Republican Party; and the Democratic Party, led by Andrew Jackson. Both parties having a common ancestor, the Whigs and Democrats agreed on many basic principles—they were both strongly committed to the ideals of Republicanism in the United States. In most of the United States, the Whigs were more upscale, better educated, more urban, and more entrepreneurial; the Democrats were strongest on the frontier and in subsistence farming areas.

Catholic immigrants, especially Irish and German, were heavily and enthusiastically Democratic, while evangelical Protestants and English and Scots-Irish immigrants were typically Whigs. The Democrats supported the primacy of the Presidency over the other branches of government, and opposed both the Bank of the United States as well as modernizing programs that they felt would build up industry at the expense of the farmers. The Whigs, on the other hand, advocated the supremacy of Congress over the executive branch as well as policies of modernization and economic protectionism.

Central political battles of this era were the Bank War and the Spoils system of federal patronage. The early 1850s saw the collapse of the Whig party, largely as a result of decline in its leadership over the urban centers collapsing for the frontier and their protectionism (a boon to the urban maker but a bane to the rural settler) becoming increasingly unpopular and a major intra-party split over slavery as a result of the Kansas–Nebraska Act. In addition, the fading of old economic issues removed many of the unifying forces holding the party together. Think the modern Republicans and their dinosaur ways constantly fighting for purity and against the changing times. Its fundamental weakness was its inability to take a position on slavery. As a coalition of Northern National Republicans and Southern Nullifiers, Whigs in each of the two regions held opposing views on slavery. Therefore, the Whig party was only able to conduct successful campaigns as long as the slavery issue was ignored. Which of course caused a crisis when the political party of Not-Talking-About-Slavery fell apart and let Nullifers in the Northern Democrat and ex-Whig southern Nullifers merge.

The Third Party System (1854–1895: 41 years) was characterized by the emergence of the anti-slavery Republican Party, which adopted many of the economic policies of the Whigs, such as national banks, railroads, high tariffs, homesteads and aid to land grant colleges. The Democratic Party was in large part the opposition party during this period, although it often controlled the Senate or the House of Representatives, or both.

The Fourth Party System, (1896–1932: 36 years) consisted of the same interest groups as the Third Party System, but saw major shifts in the central issues of debate. It began after the Republicans blamed the Democrats for the Panic of 1893, which later resulted in William McKinley's victory over William Jennings Bryan in the 1896 presidential election. The central domestic issues changed to government regulation of railroads and large corporations ("trusts"), the protective tariff, the role of labor unions, child labor, the need for a new banking system, corruption in party politics, primary elections, direct election of senators, racial segregation, efficiency in government, women's suffrage, and control of immigration. Most voting blocs continued unchanged, but some realignment took place, giving Republicans dominance in the industrial Northeast and new strength in the border states. Historians debating why no Labor Party emerged in the United States, in contrast to Western Europe, can blame American Party System realignments dividing any such socialist base into either Democratic women's issues after New York Democrats came out for suffrage against Republican "Bull Moose" Trust Busting. Much like slavery was divided within the Whig Party, now both Democrat and Republican divided what would be single issue voters between them and suppressed reforms by causing support to fight amongst itself under the rubric of the Two Party System.

The Fifth Party System (1933–1968: 35 Years) saw Republicans begin to lose radical supporters after the Great Depression, giving rise to Democratic President Franklin D. Roosevelt and the activist New Deal. Democrats promoted American liberalism, anchored in a coalition of specific liberal groups, especially ethno-religious constituencies (Catholics, Jews, African Americans), white Southerners, well-organized labor unions, urban machines, progressive intellectuals, and populist farm groups. Democrats positioned themselves more towards liberalism while conservatives increasingly dominated the GOP until the party of Lincoln simply became American Conservatism.

The Sixth Party System (1968–2021: 53 Years) saw civil rights in the Democratic Party drive the last of the Democrat Conservatives out into the Republican Party and with them the South began to vote Republican fairly consistently and the last appeal to White Southerners by the Democratic Party being in the 1976 United States presidential election by Carter. This has been the longest and most falsely divisive Party System. These political parties ran in elections longer ago than modern democracy has been in place in Europe, and intra-party politics has in both parties prevented splits by rabble-rousing against the other party. In the Democratic Party, Bankers and Billionaires sit apparently in perfect happiness and agreement with Socialists and Far-Left organizers of both class and race. In the Republican Party the conservatives use hatred of freaks and ne'er-do-wells to drive their old wealth free-trade-and-dark-labor into agreement with rural deindustrialized working-poor. Both Microsoft National Broadcasting Corporation and Fox News pretend to be staffed with common men and women trying to bring values back to America while stagnation of political organizations ensures nothing of the sort will ever happen but "The Other Side" will be found blameworthy by their media.

Never has politics been so fake or so gay. However never too has it been so apparently so. People are in critical mass seeing that getting "their man elected" is just as mind-blowingly stupid as "voting third party and throwing away their vote" if once in elected office their politician walks back their campaign promises completely. The voter is thereby equally far from their issues being addressed in both cases. However this does not mean they should simply try the other useless tactic either, so there is confusion and anger among the political bases of both parties. Each party is trying to gain the other's dissatisfied voters rather than addressing their own, and its working in the short-term but I think both parties are going to see it backfire eventually. America, on the other hand, has had Republicans and Democrats divide and rule their bases for over a century so maybe it will work again?

More specifically, I've noticed that their beliefs are the polar opposite of what I'd expect from them. Like if the Right is all Patriotic and follows the Bible almost to the T. Then why are they the ones who believe in shit like 9/11 and Anti-vaccination while the Left, the people I would have suspected be far more fearful about the government or be into new age nonsense are the ones who (in theory, anyway; execution's a whole other matter) that follow the whole "Love thy neighbor" and "Jesus loves everyone" things the Bible preaches.
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As the boomer passes, the liberal is seen more and more to be the patriot. The conservatives are becoming One-Sixth terrorists of "U.S. Capitol Violence" who made unlawful entry into the U.S. Capitol building and committed various other alleged criminal violations, such as destruction of property, assaulting law enforcement personnel, targeting members of the media for assault, and other unlawful conduct, on January 6, 2021, in Washington, D.C. There is a strange realignment there which hasn't finished but will be seen after its alignment like how in 1984 there was an "Always to have been true" thing after the change.

Once Democrats figure out how to make their average voter cry 'traitor' at the White Supremacists of the Republican Party it will always have been true that Black and Brown fought with liberals for the soul of America against the evil White Republicans. America was always liberals, not conservatives who served their personal concerns at the cost of the nation. Reagan and Bush Jr. will be rewritten as moderate Republicans who were always liberal types deep down. The Left are always against a Free Speech of racial slurs and the chaos of Gun Rights in their need for order, and the Right were always rebels ready to storm the enemy's Capitol since the Civil War days. Its very odd if you remember the 9/11 days of debating horrifying PATRIOT ACT torture in the name of patriotism, and Jon Stewart opposing it.

The left see themselves today as the more responsible people who are, perhaps not parenting, but managing while it is the childish right who mess up not their plans but America's. America which has always been multicultural but is also terminally in the way of multiculturalism and so must be remade or destroyed so that America can be the multiculturalism that it already always was? Its odd listening to the Left sometimes, but they are craving power and are fascinated with speaking to what is and is not "powerful" suddenly. I hope for a De-escalation, but not one of a false order in which one side has marched over the other in hysterical moral certainty.
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The important insight I think here is that the Left and Right are not monoliths, are hugely shifting after 53 years of stagnant political alignment under their political parties of choice. To the point that Republicans are the least Right and Democrats are the least Left that they have even been since 1968. For good or for ill.

Now before you go bashing me about how I'm mostly focusing on the Right here, note that I don't find the Left any better.
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That is important, I promise you that you will never understand the political parties or their base support groups (who can and do hate each other within their blocs only more so than "the other team's supporters". The political heretic is far worse than the political heathen!) if you take sides. Then you are lost, but only as much as the average American. In life, hope often clouds honest observation.

Last I checked, "Well-Meaning" doesn't mean "Burn down buildings because cops killed another black man". That's terrorism right there.
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Only if Washington, Prosecutors (who have become mostly partisan), and Journalists all say so. The mess we're in is the same the Constitutional Democratic Party or Cadets of the Russian Empire, they allowed terrorism in the late Russian Empire under the assumption that they were largely in control of it and that it would lead to their goals. With the Bolshevik seizure of power on 25–26 October and subsequent transfer of political power to the soviets, their Kadet newspaper and other anti-Bolshevik newspapers were closed down and the Constitutional Democratic Party was suppressed by the new regime.

Terrorism is never controllable after a point, but like printing money to solve deficits, it just seems such a good tactic by some of the rich against opponents within their class. And then the French Revolution and Soviet Revolution drown the state in blood. Humanity makes violent revolution inevitable when reform becomes no longer possible. I hope America begins to make sense again and soon.
 
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Jewelsmakerguy

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I wonder how people can think this when there were 5 dancing israelis that were arrested, their van had explosives inside, two belonged to mossad, and the higher authorities then said they had to be released so they were never charged.

The Foia documents show that they were employed by "the urban moving company" and the address was an empty building. The owner left for israel in the same week as 9/11 and could never be questioned as a result.

Also all fighter jets that would normally be able to intercept something like this were on training missions that day so they couldn't be there in time.

How can people ever have come to the conclusion of a conspiracy between israel and american government?

View attachment 2785959
tbf on my end though, I was mostly going through experience based on the shit I read on 4chan and its ilk. Maybe not the greatest idea when it comes to actually trying to look up anything political given how they usually act (ie. ill-informed, retarded and only spewing whatever shit they hear from Newsmax or fringetubers verbatim mixed with dead memes and the occasion coomer talk). And it was very much a thing until the docs dropped.
 

Lemmingwise

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tbf on my end though, I was mostly going through experience based on the shit I read on 4chan and its ilk. Maybe not the greatest idea when it comes to actually trying to look up anything political given how they usually act (ie. ill-informed, retarded and only spewing whatever shit they hear from Newsmax or fringetubers verbatim mixed with dead memes and the occasion coomer talk). And it was very much a thing until the docs dropped.
You see that filename? Where do you think I got that?

4chan is a great place for leads as long as you take the time to find a reliable source for the claims and verify you're not just parroting a meme.

As for it being a thing before the docs dropped, there's possibility of being fairly accurate in suspecting someone (or group, or country), even before there is conclusive evidence. The fact that people have the right suspicion before complete proof should work in their favor rather than the reverse. and the fact that your biases were wrong means you need to adjust them.
 

Rapechu

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More specifically, I've noticed that their beliefs are the polar opposite of what I'd expect from them. Like if the Right is all Patriotic and follows the Bible almost to the T. Then why are they the ones who believe in shit like 9/11 and Anti-vaccination
Because the right wing in the US generally believes in minimal government intrusion into peoples' lives, so this attracts people who dislike the government. Also it's a flaw of their stupid system that huge groups of people are pidgeon-holed together.

while the Left, the people I would have suspected be far more fearful about the government
Left (I assume you are referring to Democrats) is an unholy fusion of capitalists and socialists. Both of these groups love how the Dems glad-hand out money to businesses and welfare leeches. It's a party of parasites.

or be into new age nonsense
They are. Take a look at Gwyneth Paltrow's online store.

are the ones who (in theory, anyway; execution's a whole other matter) that follow the whole "Love thy neighbor" and "Jesus loves everyone" things the Bible preaches
The Bible isn't some hippity dippity handbook like you seem to think it is

1 Samuel 15:1-3 KJV
15 Samuel also said unto Saul, The Lord sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the Lord.
2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

The phrase "Lord of Hosts" (IE. Lord of Armies, or God of War) appears 261 times in the Old Testament.

The American Left are postmodernist humanists, they hate the Bible, and want to replace the Bible's morality with a completely different set of morals, something which is akin to "Do what thou wilt".

COVID's another thing I thought the two of them would have had differing opinions on. Again with the Right, being as patriotic as they are, telling people to mask up in the hope to save America while the Left would be the ones to question the whole narrative and effectiveness of vaccinations. Instead we have the Left doubling down on the masking and vaccine laws, and the Right being batshit insane and actively protesting and effectively killing their own because of their selfish behavior and their supposed "patriotism".
So tired of this stupid pandemic fearmongering. Get vaccinated if you're scared, otherwise don't.
 

Niggernerd

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The right finally has some members with a spine instead of a full party of limp wristed cuckolds thay are vehemently globohomo. The left are globohomo communist/authoritarian faggots who they perceive anyone the right of Mao a nazi (i.e any normal constituent/moderate dem)

Edit: only one side has jumped into a abyss
 

Jewelsmakerguy

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Centrists are coward scum faggots
If you think I'm a centrist, then you're a tool. If anything I lean more towards the right in my beliefs (being I grew up in a religious family). And arguably, I hate the left far more than the right with how intrusive they get and how they legitimately are ruining everything. It's just that I'm at least willing to point out that the Right isn't great to be around either with how obnoxious the worst of them can get. Why else do you think I'm a self-loathing Canadian - I honest to god hate the government of my country. Though like I also stated before (like a broken record), most of my information on these political topics regarding the US comes from /pol/, Reddit, YouTube and any Facebook and twitter posts that wind up being screencaped on Kiwi.

You see that filename? Where do you think I got that?
yes, but 4chan likes to be really fucking random with their political opinions, especially over at /pol/. For the longest time they rotated between praising Jews and bitching at how they're ruining everything.

So tired of this stupid pandemic fearmongering. Get vaccinated if you're scared, otherwise don't.
I'm already vaccinated, I'm just really not sure where this mindset of "Don't get vaccinated" came from regarding the conservatives.
 
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byuu

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The right finally has some members with a spine instead of a full party of limp wristed cuckolds thay are vehemently globohomo. The left are globohomo communist/authoritarian faggots who they perceive anyone the right of Mao a nazi (i.e any normal constituent/moderate dem)

Edit: only one side has jumped into a abyss
How dare those fucking commies left of Hitler call everyone on the right of Mao a nazi?
 

Bonesjones

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People believe the left/right dichotomy because tribalism is ingrained in human consciousness. The elite while not necessarily being on the same team use it to keep people divided and fighting against each other instead of teaming up. It's like the mob, they fight against each other for power but mostly try to keep the status quo between themselves because long term stability enriches them all.
 

Lemmingwise

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I'm just really not sure where this mindset of "Don't get vaccinated" came from regarding the conservatives.
Robert Malone, inventor of mrna vaccines is warning people not to get them.

The japanese inventor of ivermectine was removed from youtube for his uninformed opinions about ivermectine.

The vaccines have not been tested long term (but we are in the process of the largest human trials as over half of the world population has taken them). People under 60 have more chance of death or injury from the vaccine than the chance that the vaccine will help protect them by at least factor 4.

People that haven't taken these vaccines are a minority that are better at researching things, trust their own instincts or have a network of people they actually trust over random or appointed experts and learned from their network the indications of these things which are now provable facts from peer reviewed research.

Conservatives in general have stronger bullshit sensors; of course this means they're sometimes late to things that are good ideas.

But not this time, lmao.
 

ToroidalBoat

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Like I said in another thread, it can look as if American politics on "both sides of the aisle" have been acts in a circus - at least since 2012.
 

beet644

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What would fix a lot of the crazy if no state or seat was a safe area for any party. They only get in office because most people only vote on party lines.
 

draggs

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They don't agree with, specifically and particularly, me, enough.

Obviously.
 

L50LasPak

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Its just the long term result of both parties trying to push the envelope in the opposite direction in order to make their brand more distinct from the others. Additionally both parties fall victim to motive baiting, where members of one party LARPs as an exaggeration of the other in order to encourage more of their members to escalate their increasingly insane positions. Both parties routinely engage in this activity, to say nothing of the trolls who have no loyalty and just do it to encourage more chaos. But the normies of either party always fall for this, and someone influential always accordingly escalates their position to take advantage of this demand they're too stupid to realize doesn't actually exist. Which opens the way for more motive baiting opportunities, which causes further escalation. On and on it goes.
 

The Last Stand

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Trump happened. Neither side wanted him in office. Therefore, both sides went full force into political autism as a reaction to their safe space being tampered with.

The Left "winning" the culture war with non-stop media coverage and racial tension only strengthened that divide.

Also, "9/11 didn't happen." That's a new one.
 

Jewelsmakerguy

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Also, "9/11 didn't happen." That's a new one.
Yeah, I'll own up to that one. But by that token, what I had meant to say at the time was "9/11 didn't happen by terrorists". As I grew up seeing people claim it was an inside job, or that "DA JOOS DID 9/11", and that last one I can't tell how many were dead serious about it, and how many were joking.