What was going on with Japanese PS2 games?

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BananaSplit

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Another thing that should taken account is that games from the 90s/00s (and prior) were developed by people that weren't essentially game enthusiasts.

Kojima still made video games up until around 2008 even if he did try to give them a cinematic presentation. He really didn't go hog wild on making them pure movies until the west was firmly in the dominant position of game sales IMO, and I'd argue Kojima was always a weird outlier to the Japanese game development scene.

That being said, while I find his video game storylines to be kind of fucking stupid as I grow older, I'd say he's kept things pretty creative/out there compared to most AAA games today. I didn't play Death Stranding but I can't believe anyone wouldn't say it's like everything else out there.
Kojima did inspire himself to be a movie director, his involvement in the game industry was apparently more a matter of circumstances, according to the GCCX interview 15 years ago.



That said, I believe people gives Kojima far too much credit, due of his director status, when a lot of work were also done by multiple other people within the team.
 
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Fools Idol

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From what I understand there was an issue with how Japanese devs made games, they would use a lot of their own in house tech, often restarting development when they ran into a wall and would start from scratch when starting to develop a new game instead of using resources they already had.

This combined with devs trying to capitalise on the new power the 360 and PS3 offered with bigger more ambitions games all led to a massive increase in game budgets. This wouldn't have been a problem if it weren't for the shrinking console game market in Japan. The Wii had the numbers but nobody bought games for it, the 360 was none existent despite Microsoft's attempts to entice jap devs to the system and the PS3 while not doing terribly in Japan, still wasn't the run away success it's predecessors had been. So the question of how to pay for these game was answered by trying to sell these game in the west.

Not a bad solution in of it's self, but the issue came from the publishers and devs sales expectations which were insane. A number of high profile finical failures or games that didn't do COD numbers and suddenly the whole Japanese game industry decided that the problem was with how Japanese the games were. So they tried to emulate the west.

With that being said, I don't agree that the games from this era in Japanese's history were all bad, mediocre maybe but those game are still very Japanese.

The Last of Us part II is a game that has become emblematic for this whole "woke shit is destroying my video games!" attitude and it is a game that is "woke" but if you just take a step back from all this bullshit and just take the game on it's own merits you'll find it to be a perfectly serviceable story. As we have grown older our understanding of the themes and the background to these games grown too.
 

Maurice Caine

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I think you've fallen into the revisionist history and collector trap. Rule of Rose (and The Haunting Grounds to a lesser degree) were considered mediocre games back in the day, with only horror fans considering them to be decent or good. It's only recently when they became rare collectors items that they were branded as the best games on the PS2. It's the same way games like MUSHA and Gotcha Force became "classics" when they started fetching high ebay prices.

To be clear, I'm not saying the games are bad. It's just that their importance and quality have been overstated since becoming collectors items.

It's a similar story with From Software games. Before Dark Soul's, most couldn't tell you who they were, and if they could they'd say "the Armoured Core guys". After Dark Souls, suddenly every other Souls fan was claiming they were big fans of Kings Field, Shadow Tower, and Echo Night back in the day. I call bullshit.


As much as I hate to quote Jim Sterling, this is the result of publishers wanting all the money. "Some money" or even "lots of money" isn't good enough. Everything that to be a Call of Duty level hit or it's written off as an obscure failure. For all the shit Bethesda gets for re-releasing Skyrim, they're one of the few companies funding those kinds of games.


Games like Shadow of the Colossus, Ico, Fahrenheit, and Nomad Soul got accused of that back in the day, albeit by a small minority. I guess half of those were vindicated by time.


I haven't played most of these suggestions, but some suggestions off the top of my head. Spy Fiction was an experimental stealth game by SWERY before he made Deadly Premonition. Might be worth going back to check out. You might also want to look up the Simple 2000 series. Some got English releases under different names, but they were cheap budget games that relied on bizarre gimmicks.

For games known for their atmosphere. Okami was a Zelda clone with an art style people liked back then. The Shenmue and Yakuza games might fit the bill.
Yakuza was a budget title back in the PS2 days and the game hasn't aged well at all. Ironic how it became Sega's flagship.
 

Judge Dredd

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I don't know anything about the Sony PlayStation but with Nintendo it was an active decision.
David Jaffe is a lolcow now, but if he is to believed it was a deliberate decisions by Sony as well. They went from funding dozens of first and second party games a generation, to single digits. Relying on AAA games as system sellers.

I see the logic. No one is buying a system for Haunting Ground (to use the OPs example), but I'd argue having a large library of compelling games is important. Wii and VR had the problem a few tent poles holding up a sea of shovelware with little in the middle.

Basically the combination of mid size developers dying (especially due to gaming press and gamers ignoring them), insane costs of game production and the encroaching mobile market.
The press deserves a lot of blame. Perhaps even most of it. That's a rant for another day.

Gamers aren't off the hook. This is the result of every game being either "The best game ever!" or "Worst game ever!". Where every game that wasn't the cutting edge graphically was dismissed as "looking like a PS1 game". I get that Crowbcat and Biggi and Banzaii are popular, but when "gamers" will brand a game as "broken" for mundane shit like a low res texture on some out of the way decoration, or showing that random NPCs just wander around aimlessly, then would anyone bother making a mid tier game?

On the plus side, game production costs are coming down as tools become more robust.
 

Agent Abe Caprine

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Where every game that wasn't the cutting edge graphically was dismissed as "looking like a PS1 game".
I've seen games that look like HD PS2 games get this. Even seen games that look very 7th gen get this treatment. I'd be surprised if any of the people unironically saying this have even seen a PS1 in real life.
 

Marissa Moira

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What destroyed the japanese games industry was mobile games, around the time of the PS3 was when they discovered it.

As of today over 70% of the industry that was once dedicated to consoles became phone games. All the smaller teams and companies switched over to the new market.

That's where everything went. What's taken up it's mantle now is indie games, and that's less restricted by borders so it's a real big mishmosh from all over the world.

You can play shit from Europe and Canada that would have probably passed for Weird Japanese Quirky game in the past. Likewise there's stuff from asia that feels very very western. You're probably years away from hearing about them though if you get your game choices from youtube channels who just focus on glossing over everything with nostalgia.

So yeah Gatcha killed everything and it's their fault.
 

Marissa Moira

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Video game consoles today aren't as revolutionary as the Playstation 2 was.

I think this guy put together a pretty great video that effectively conveys how significant the PS2 was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Asr3jtwS0

View attachment 2803679
It was called the "Computer Entertainment System" in some adverts which also caused many spergs to sperg out about this being the last generation of consoles.

Still hasn't fucking happened.

Not that I want to rain down on your parade, but it should be time to accept that the Playstation/SIE of today isn't the same brand like it used to be two or three decades ago. Especially when it comes to japanese games.

Doesn't help that after all the successful attempts of the californian HQ to alienate the japanese game market, the PS5 is currently a big flop in Japan in its first year of existence (the most important year to build up an installbase). You might see a few high-profile AAA games from publishers such as Square-Enix, mainly things that were in development for years prior. But don't hold your breath on something like the huge and diverse library that was synonymous of past Playstation systems, including handhelds.

*inb4 Marissa Moira screeching*
Well I can't let this go unnoticed since you allow me to live rent free after all, would be very inconsiderate IMO.

For playstation consoles, the first year is never the year where big sales are made, Sony consoles take awhile to ramp up to full strength and it's not uncommon for it to be four years out and having it's sales quadruple from what the first year did.

Sony_consoles_shipments.jpg

sony sales.png

This is the list of most of the Playstation's console shipments for a few of their generations and their top selling games for PS4, none of them are year one outside of Killzone. Software always drives console sales way more for the following years because normally Sony never has a big must have launch game for the first year. Current the PS5 is sitting well above average compared to the PS3 in the global market. The stuff in japan would be deemed a regional deficiency. There's yet to be a console that's sold in the high double digit millions in it's first year that's gone on to actually flop. The PS5 is still very much in demand for Japan but they can't make enough to sate it. You would maybe have an Argument if the PS5 only sold around 4 million it's first year globally and had stock wasting away on shelves after launch like the PS3. It's expected to be around 18-20 million sold by Quarter 1 of 2022 which is going to put it well ahead of any previous lowpoints made by the PS3.

Mind you it took 3-4 years to salvage the PS3 before it had a somewhat suitable library and it eventually made around 90 million consoles worlwide. The PS3 sold more in it's later years than it did at launch. And it had a godawful launch and even needed a newer model revision put out as a means of remedying the flaws the hardware had.
 
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4ZURE

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Not that I want to rain down on your parade, but it should be time to accept that the Playstation/SIE of today isn't the same brand like it used to be two or three decades ago. Especially when it comes to japanese games.

Doesn't help that after all the successful attempts of the californian HQ to alienate the japanese game market, the PS5 is currently a big flop in Japan in its first year of existence (the most important year to build up an installbase). You might see a few high-profile AAA games from publishers such as Square-Enix, mainly things that were in development for years prior. But don't hold your breath on something like the huge and diverse library that was synonymous of past Playstation systems, including handhelds.

*inb4 Marissa Moira screeching*
Personally, I just wanted to see more of PlayStation’s IP rather than 3rd party. The company genuinely held some great titles under their belt. Sure, none of them are quite the names of Nintendo, but what was there was pretty varied and really cool. If PlayStation goes back to that PS2, PS3 experimental era of original IP, I would consider it a worthy successor.
 

Marissa Moira

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Personally, I just wanted to see more of PlayStation’s IP rather than 3rd party. The company genuinely held some great titles under their belt. Sure, none of them are quite the names of Nintendo, but what was there was pretty varied and really cool. If PlayStation goes back to that PS2, PS3 experimental era of original IP, I would consider it a worthy successor.
Very experimental shit is going to be stuff in VR if you're looking for stuff that may work at a conceptual level.

They've just bought a ton of smaller studios within the past few months and expanded their indie developer outreach and funding over the last quarter with some kind of Indie program re-launch.

Most of what they're doing for the PS5 is similar genres they've tackled before.

Dark Cloud was their first attempt at a Zelda clone

But God of War 2018 was the game that delivered their own take on the Zelda formula that also got the big recognition they were after.

Considering that many things are focused on IP growth we're probably going to see older shit revisited. Hell Astro's Playroom was a very very refined version of Ape Escape, a big problem with many of their first party games like Gravity Rush is that they suffered from obtuse or poorly done elements that were counterproductive. GR2 had a shitload of stealth missions and hand to hand combat that were not suitable for a game about gravity powers and hurling yourself through the air. They missed the main point of the game and had the missions in the game work against it.
 
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Dom Cruise

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Also, while I'm talking about the PS2, the "spirit" of games of this era did live on briefly after the PS2 with 360 games like Dead Rising and Ace Combat 6.

Dead Rising especially is absolutely a game within the zeitgeist of what Capcom games of the PS2 era were like, just with more advanced tech, which is why it's one of my top all time favorite games, it's like getting a glimpse of what could have been.

Ace Combat 6 is also very much like the PS2 entries, just with slightly more advanced tech as well.

And of course Dark Souls maintained that vibe and it continues on with From games today.

David Jaffe is a lolcow now, but if he is to believed it was a deliberate decisions by Sony as well. They went from funding dozens of first and second party games a generation, to single digits. Relying on AAA games as system sellers.
David Jaffe really breaks my heart, used to be a big fan of his, I don't know why we wound up such a retard.

The press deserves a lot of blame. Perhaps even most of it. That's a rant for another day.
As much nostalgia as I have for the magazines of the 2000s and as much as they were preferable to gaming journalism today, gaming journalism has always had some bullshit in it.

Essentially all those critics would slam Japanese games like Haunting Ground for simply being different, for not being like a Halo or whatever, missing the point entirely that being different was what made them cool.

They would engage in some pearl clutching even back then too, I distinctly remember OPM gave Drakengard a bad review mainly because the critic was offended by an aspect of it's story, which makes the huge following Yoko Taro has today all the more deliciously ironic.
 

4ZURE

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David Jaffe really breaks my heart, used to be a big fan of his, I don't know why we wound up such a retard.
Jaffe had many reasons for the downfall. To start, there was the absolute development hell him and his team went through with Twisted Metal. Multiple scrapped titles after Black, until they finally decided to just make an online only multiplayer game, to which Sony forced a story mode into. 2012 really broke him as the game underperformed and fans were dissatisfied with the lack of story content. Sony really did him dirty by wanting 2012 to be a true entry and forcing a story mode in within a year’s time span.

Jaffe would then go on to make Drawn to Death, which was panned by critics for being a mediocre shooter with a confusing plot. Jaffa’s games were victims of time and restraints. His best work was in the 2000s, where edgier and more violent content was acceptable, but in the mid-PS3, much of that edge style went away, which is why franchises like God of War and Ratchet & Clank changed so much. The 2010s, at least the early part, wanted to do away with the rebellious and cynical attitude of the 2000s since we were more-or-less getting over 9/11. People also wanted smarter content as the 2000s was filled with edge without a point, see Drawn Together.

After being outcasted by the industry, Jaffe started smoking weed, hence why he is so crazed nowadays.

Also, while I'm talking about the PS2, the "spirit" of games of this era did live on briefly after the PS2 with 360 games like Dead Rising and Ace Combat 6.
I think your real answer as to why things changed is because…things change?

The PS2 was a unique era. Maybe it was better, maybe it was worse. IDK, that is for you to decide, but that should not negate that other gens moved on and tried new things. Sony, for a good chunk of the PS2 and 3 was sort of a cluster fuck company. They had no defining trait, outside of maybe edge. Gaming in general was sort of like this. The reason much of the magic went away was due to trends being set, and companies finding an identity of which they lacked in the 6th gen.

Games were experimental because there was no big genre yet. Halo really changed everything as the landscapes of the late 6th and 7th would be primarily defined by FPS, hence the reason many experimental titles went away. XBOX would then brand themselves based on hardcore FPS. Nintendo used to lack an identity and be more open to things during the GC, but this just lead to them having no distinct identity. This would change with the Wii and DS as they went all in on casual games. PlayStation would be the main one to retain the lack of identity, but due to how poor the PS3 sold for most of its life, they quickly found a niche in cinematic games which had been growing in popularity with them since the PS2.
If anything, casual games, FPS, identity, online, and higher costs are truly what killed the era, even though a good chunk of those things are…dare I say… pretty good? I kinda appreciate the seventh gen more than the sixth, and that definitely is because I really liked how experimental companies were with casual games, especially on Wii. The online capabilities of gaming also lead to a good chunk of experimentation with games like LBP being pretty incredible for the time.
 

Dom Cruise

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Jaffe had many reasons for the downfall. To start, there was the absolute development hell him and his team went through with Twisted Metal. Multiple scrapped titles after Black, until they finally decided to just make an online only multiplayer game, to which Sony forced a story mode into. 2012 really broke him as the game underperformed and fans were dissatisfied with the lack of story content. Sony really did him dirty by wanting 2012 to be a true entry and forcing a story mode in within a year’s time span.

Jaffe would then go on to make Drawn to Death, which was panned by critics for being a mediocre shooter with a confusing plot. Jaffa’s games were victims of time and restraints. His best work was in the 2000s, where edgier and more violent content was acceptable, but in the mid-PS3, much of that edge style went away, which is why franchises like God of War and Ratchet & Clank changed so much. The 2010s, at least the early part, wanted to do away with the rebellious and cynical attitude of the 2000s since we were more-or-less getting over 9/11. People also wanted smarter content as the 2000s was filled with edge without a point, see Drawn Together.

After being outcasted by the industry, Jaffe started smoking weed, hence why he is so crazed nowadays.
Definitely makes sense to say the Twisted Metal reboot is where it all went wrong.

What a sad story it is, that Twisted Metal reboot had so much potential, but Sony fuckery ruined it, why on Earth didn't they just delay it?

I remember the desire to raise the bar a bit as we entered the 2010s and on the surface that wasn't a bad thing as things had gotten pretty dumb in a lot of ways, but wound up happening was a bullshit "no fun allowed" mentality and people only winding up even dumber, because nothing's worse than an idiot that actually think they're smart.




I think your real answer as to why things changed is because…things change?
But as a said the "spirit" of what I'm talking about still survived after the PS2 and to some degree lives on today, just because things change doesn't mean everything has to be left behind.

The PS2 was a unique era. Maybe it was better, maybe it was worse. IDK, that is for you to decide,
In some ways it was better, in some ways it was worse, make no mistake there was plenty of trash on the PS2, but it's the gems that really stand out because there isn't much like it today.

Basically the era arguably had lower lows (Fugitive Hunter anyone? Over 9000 throwaway movie licensed games) but it had higher highs than today.

but that should not negate that other gens moved on and tried new things. Sony, for a good chunk of the PS2 and 3 was sort of a cluster fuck company. They had no defining trait, outside of maybe edge. Gaming in general was sort of like this. The reason much of the magic went away was due to trends being set, and companies finding an identity of which they lacked in the 6th gen.
Sony had a few traits, like cartoony action platformers ala Crash, Spyro, Jak, Ratchet and Sly.

Games were experimental because there was no big genre yet. Halo really changed everything as the landscapes of the late 6th and 7th would be primarily defined by FPS, hence the reason many experimental titles went away. XBOX would then brand themselves based on hardcore FPS. Nintendo used to lack an identity and be more open to things during the GC, but this just lead to them having no distinct identity. This would change with the Wii and DS as they went all in on casual games. PlayStation would be the main one to retain the lack of identity, but due to how poor the PS3 sold for most of its life, they quickly found a niche in cinematic games which had been growing in popularity with them since the PS2.
Remember when even Nintendo tried their hand at an FPS with Geist?

If anything, casual games, FPS, identity, online, and higher costs are truly what killed the era, even though a good chunk of those things are…dare I say… pretty good? I kinda appreciate the seventh gen more than the sixth, and that definitely is because I really liked how experimental companies were with casual games, especially on Wii. The online capabilities of gaming also lead to a good chunk of experimentation with games like LBP being pretty incredible for the time.
The seventh gen was fun for a while, it's not like I spent the majority of it bemoaning the loss of games like Rule of Rose, it wasn't until years later did I really look back and say "gosh, whatever happened to games like that?" after enough time had passed.

I think part of the issue is in many ways we're still stuck in 7th gen styles, we're still getting yearly CoDs etc, we need a new era of experimentation.

Make no mistake though, the 7th gen was overall pretty good, last year I played Halo Reach, which was one I skipped and it really made me feel nostalgic to play something from that gen I hadn't played before that was very much of that era, made me feel as nostalgic as playing games that are older.
 
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Product Placement

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It was called the "Computer Entertainment System" in some adverts which also caused many spergs to sperg out about this being the last generation of consoles.

Still hasn't fucking happened.


Well I can't let this go unnoticed since you allow me to live rent free after all, would be very inconsiderate IMO.

For playstation consoles, the first year is never the year where big sales are made, Sony consoles take awhile to ramp up to full strength and it's not uncommon for it to be four years out and having it's sales quadruple from what the first year did.

View attachment 2804013

View attachment 2804015

This is the list of most of the Playstation's console shipments for a few of their generations and their top selling games for PS4, none of them are year one outside of Killzone. Software always drives console sales way more for the following years because normally Sony never has a big must have launch game for the first year. Current the PS5 is sitting well above average compared to the PS3 in the global market. The stuff in japan would be deemed a regional deficiency. There's yet to be a console that's sold in the high double digit millions in it's first year that's gone on to actually flop. The PS5 is still very much in demand for Japan but they can't make enough to sate it. You would maybe have an Argument if the PS5 only sold around 4 million it's first year globally and had stock wasting away on shelves after launch like the PS3. It's expected to be around 18-20 million sold by Quarter 1 of 2022 which is going to put it well ahead of any previous lowpoints made by the PS3.

Mind you it took 3-4 years to salvage the PS3 before it had a somewhat suitable library and it eventually made around 90 million consoles worlwide. The PS3 sold more in it's later years than it did at launch. And it had a godawful launch and even needed a newer model revision put out as a means of remedying the flaws the hardware had.
The PS4 game list is not something to be trusted, most game publishers don't put out the numbers as they used to and stuff like horizon zero dawn hit over 10 million back in February 2021. The Last of Us 2 number of 4 million it has was just its first 3 days of sale, so ps4 game sales will be much much higher in most cases.
 

Dom Cruise

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I suppose I should put it into words what exactly it is I'm talking about, the "spirit" or vibe these games have other than being developed in Japan.

I think there's about two main things.

1. They're games for gamers, there's no "unlock cosmetic skins for your weapons!", Woke pandering or filthy casual hand holding type bullshit, these are games made for gamers.

2. There's something about them that's unique, think Silent Hill's crazy surreal art direction, Fatal Frame's "take pictures of ghosts" mechanic, Haunting Ground's surreal, gothic setting, Rule of Rose's theme of British orphans, Ace Combat's strange alternate world, Katamari Damacy's main mechanic, something that really stands out and is not something a western developer would probably have done, something that stands out as uniquely Japanese even if it's covering western esque subject matter ala Ace Combat's US military planes, Rule of Rose's depression era England setting or Dark Souls' European medieval esque knights, castles etc.
 

BananaSplit

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Yakuza was a budget title back in the PS2 days and the game hasn't aged well at all. Ironic how it became Sega's flagship.
Fun trivial fact: Ryu ga Gotoku/Yakuza almost didn't see the light of the day because of CERO's draconian rules (such as portrayal of human blood) in the early days of the organization, and it took a couple of negotiations between the rating board, SIE and Nagoshi in order to get the green light. There is an interesting documentary manga talking about it, although only in moonrunes (sorry): https://archive.vn/nCemW

Personally, I just wanted to see more of PlayStation’s IP rather than 3rd party. The company genuinely held some great titles under their belt. Sure, none of them are quite the names of Nintendo, but what was there was pretty varied and really cool. If PlayStation goes back to that PS2, PS3 experimental era of original IP, I would consider it a worthy successor.
Hence why I said you shouldn't hold your breath (at least to avoid potential disappointment) because even the 1st-party offerings have been reduced to a mere fraction they used to on the PS1, PS2 or PS3.

sony input.jpg

And it's not exactly going to get better because of two main points:
-The american Sony branch in charge wants all eyes on the next big global hit, whether its own or from its partners. The company still does highlight japanese games and indies (such as Final Fantasy, Resident Evil or Kena: Bridge of Spirits as examples) but all those games are now carefully curated and selected high-profile “blockbusters”, even within their own niches, and so they get SIE’s approval. To sum up, primarily aiming for global hits with high-budget projects mean less risks therefore less experimentation.

-Among the numerous decisions to alienate the nippon market, the american branch pretty much shuttered Japan Studio which was behind a lot of first-party titles but also acted like a large hub between the japanese branch of SIE and third-parties for business relationships and shared game projects. They lost talented people as notable as Fumito Ueda, Shunsuke Saito, Keiichiro Toyama, and Masaaki Yamagiwa in the process, only leaving Team Asobi to take over with a frenchie (Nicolas Doucet) as the leader.

To my sincere opinion, the flavor of PlayStation libraries came from smaller games and developers, both 1st and 3rd parties (and a lot of them being japanese), thus creating a vast diverse catalog. The current state of the Playstation isn't exactly allowing that now, the soul is more or less gone.
 

4ZURE

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Hence why I said you shouldn't hold your breath (at least to avoid potential disappointment) because even the 1st-party offerings have been reduced to a mere fraction they used to on the PS1, PS2 or PS3.
Not to be that guy, but there are some glaring omissions on your chart.
Dreams, Sackboy A Big Adventure, Medievil, Shadow of The Colossus, Astro’s titles, LBP3, Horizon, etc..

A lot of Sony’s low output during the PS4, is starting to be rectified. You have to remember that Sony lost Insomniac for a good chunk of the last generation, as they went to XBOX. There were also long development periods with many of their studios, Naughty Dog and Media Molecule being the chiefs amongst them. Now Sony has fully bought out Insomniac as to not lose them again, which has been good since Insomniac already has 2 games on 5 and two more on the way. Sony also seems to be reaching out to Sumo Digital again, which means LBP is not gonna sit dormant for over half a decade like it did during the PS4. There is some smaller studios they seem to be building up for bigger projects, such as Lucid Games, which just made Destruction All-Stars, and now is rumored to be getting the Twisted IP after every other one of that franchise’s studios shut down thanks to Jaffe starting a new studio every 10 seconds.

I will not act like Sony is perfect, but I feel they are really trying a lot more than they did during PS4. I can understand the skepticism, but I have a good feeling about 5, especially if Sony does get their shit kicked in and has to do the PS3 scramble again.

Definitely makes sense to say the Twisted Metal reboot is where it all went wrong.

What a sad story it is, that Twisted Metal reboot had so much potential, but Sony fuckery ruined it, why on Earth didn't they just delay it?
I hate to do this, but I will defend Sony on this one. Jaffe was developing a new Twisted game since Black in 2001. He had numerous scrapped games prior to 2012, and had developed and defunct multiple studios in that time. Jaffe himself was sort of his own undoing, as he could never pull a sequel together for nearly a decade. By the end, all Jaffe wanted to do was gut the series entirely of its single player content and make it a PSN title, which to be fair, Sony did ask of him. All of the mechanics were working before Sony’s fuckery, the game was perfect gameplay wise, Sony just added complication by asking him to add a story mode in a year so they can sell retail price. Jaffe made it more complicated by wanting it to be cinematic rather than comic panels like old games, since he said Infamous looked like shit by using comic style in the 7th gen. So they filmed a movie in a year, meaning that Twisted went from a typical 12 characters to 3, angering fans.

Honestly, the end product was still solid, the gameplay was great and the new bosses were super ambitious. Fans just couldn’t handle the focus being more on online than story.

Other issues that killed the game were PSN costing money in 2012, killing the player base. The races were also a turn off as Twisted was not built for them, but Jaffe did not want to upset their best programmer by saying his racing mini game played like ass.
 
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Marissa Moira

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Apr 19, 2019
-Among the numerous decisions to alienate the nippon market, the american branch pretty much shuttered Japan Studio which was behind a lot of first-party titles but also acted like a large hub between the japanese branch of SIE and third-parties for business relationships and shared game projects. They lost talented people as notable as Fumito Ueda, Shunsuke Saito, Keiichiro Toyama, and Masaaki Yamagiwa in the process, only leaving Team Asobi to take over with a frenchie (Nicolas Doucet) as the leader.

To my sincere opinion, the flavor of PlayStation libraries came from smaller games and developers, both 1st and 3rd parties (and a lot of them being japanese), thus creating a vast diverse catalog. The current state of the Playstation isn't exactly allowing that now, the soul is more or less gone.
Japan Studio got shut down because it was mismanaged and had not had a hit in a longer time span than Blizzard did (Blizzard's last good game was in 2008).

The Japanese market wasn't even buying games made by Japan studio and wound up buying up the games made by Sony's western studios in way larger numbers(Horizon Zero Dawn greatly outdid Gravity Rush's 2 lifetime sales in a single week when released in japan). Shutting down japan studio did not alienate the Japanese market, they were not buying the titles themselves to begin with.

Also most of the people have gone on to other projects at this point that are release on the PS5. Gravity Rush creator is working on Slitterhead.

Team Asobi wound up making a better Ape Escape game with Astro's Playroom than Ape Escape 2 and 3 ever turned out to be. It's the similar reason with why Sonic Mania turned out to be better than Sonic team's own outputs. Game mechanics are broad things, anyone with enough knowledge can understand how to implement them properly, their country of origin doesn't mean anything.

The thing is about game design is that you can throw around concepts, but you have to be able to drive them home and make them concrete things that have to be interacted with. Japan studio fucked that up a ton of times by adding mechanics that were counteractive or tedious to the base game's main mechanic.

Even Sony's Monster Hunter clones didn't fare well at all, and with Monster Hunter World there's no real desire to go back to the old style since it's mechanically inferior compared to how New Monster Hunter games control. It's why they're having Capcom make another MH game for the Playstation instead of themselves.

Most of what japan studio did was easily replicated by indie studios which is why they tend to grow and invest studios from the ground up now.
 
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BananaSplit

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Not to be that guy, but there are some glaring omissions on your chart.
Dreams, Sackboy A Big Adventure, Medievil, Shadow of The Colossus, Astro’s titles, LBP3, Horizon, etc..

A lot of Sony’s low output during the PS4, is starting to be rectified. You have to remember that Sony lost Insomniac for a good chunk of the last generation, as they went to XBOX. There were also long development periods with many of their studios, Naughty Dog and Media Molecule being the chiefs amongst them. Now Sony has fully bought out Insomniac as to not lose them again, which has been good since Insomniac already has 2 games on 5 and two more on the way. Sony also seems to be reaching out to Sumo Digital again, which means LBP is not gonna sit dormant for over half a decade like it did during the PS4. There is some smaller studios they seem to be building up for bigger projects, such as Lucid Games, which just made Destruction All-Stars, and now is rumored to be getting the Twisted IP after every other one of that franchise’s studios shut down thanks to Jaffe starting a new studio every 10 seconds.

I will not act like Sony is perfect, but I feel they are really trying a lot more than they did during PS4. I can understand the skepticism, but I have a good feeling about 5, especially if Sony does get their shit kicked in and has to do the PS3 scramble again.
The chart was also missing a few Japan Studio titles from the prior eras like the Boku no Natsuyasumi (My Summer Vacations) which were developed by Millenium Kitchen under Japan Studio/SIE. Admittedly, the chart isn't mine but I concede its flaw you pointed out although it does present even SIE's input focus more on AAA titles since the PS4 rather than the smaller and experimental titles of the early PS days.

I won't also deny that I personally focus more on japanese games than the (modern) western games. If all you mainly cared for from PlayStation are their (big) western games, you really should be safe, those aren’t going anywhere. But the business tactic of excluding Japan entirely (in spite of still being the 2nd or 3rd largest game console market as an individual country and which saw growth over the last years) is why the Playstation situation is grimier and really unfortunate. And the Famitsu sale charts really do portray a current poor reception of the japanese public towards the PS5, both in game sales and hardware units sold, lowering the likeness of the small and weird japanese stuff to come over if the situation persists.

I do think you should hold your expectations into moderation, but I'm not one to judge and decide what others should look forward to. The most important thing after all is to have fun.
 
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