What would happen if the United States ended Wilsonian Interventism and stopped being the World police. - America just sticks to being America and finally leaves the Sand-niggers alone.

Poiseon

I am literal poison.
kiwifarms.net
Wilsonian interventionism is a term that derives from President Woodrow Wilson. Think; "We aren't fighting a war for oil, we're fighting a war for Democracy!"

This ideology plagues American foreign policy, and is the reason that the United States has over 800 foreign military bases, and is seen as the "World Police."

The question is simple. If the USA ended this policy,and brought all the soldiers and equipment spread around the world home, and returned to letting regions settle their own conflicts, what would the result be? For the world overall, specific regions, the USA itself, etc.
 

Kamov Ka-52

Fangs bared
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Without someone to replace the power vacuum that would result from United States stepping away from it role as de facto world hedgemon?


In all seriousness, that's not a Pandora's box that anyone really wants to open, until a strong successor state is lined up at least. Without that, at best? Lots of proxy wars and the third world getting shit on like during the Cold War. At worst? Exchange of nuclear weapons between some combination of Russia, India, China, and Europe. Of the remaining global powers though, I'd argue that Russia has the greatest force projection abilities outside of the US, and they would stand the best chance, in the short term, of basically assuming the same role the US did.
 
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mindlessobserver

kiwifarms.net
We are a capricious God but we try to be benevolent.

Seriously though nothing good. If the 20th century has taught us anything it's that we cannot go back to a multi polar world with equal powers vying for dominance. When a missile fired from one country can hit another in less then an hour the world has become far to small for game of thrones level shenanigans.

We have also fallen into the Imperial trap. America despite all screeching to the contrary, is the global hegemony. We set the standards and control the peace. And it has been peace. An unprecedented period of peace and economic growth for the whole planet it should be noted. But that peace is dependent on American force to preserve it. Even Europe needs it. Why hasn't spain retaken Gibraltar yet? Are they scared of the UK? Of course they aren't. If they went into Gibraltar tomorrow the UK couldn't do shit about it and neither would the EU. But the danger for Spain is that the USA would do something about it. Because Gibraltar is in Europe and thus covered by the North Atlantic Charter. Which prohibits forcibly changing political boundaries in Europe. Spain can tell the UK to fuck off, but if America shows up with a carrier task force and a brigade of marines they are snookered.

And that is what keeps the peace. Nobody wants to risk going so far over the line America reacts. Even Russia has been circumspect. And that galls them more then most.
 

eternal dog mongler

kiwifarms.net
And that is what keeps the peace. Nobody wants to risk going so far over the line America reacts. Even Russia has been circumspect. And that galls them more then most.
Yeah, we have a ridiculously overfunded military that can get full deployment within 72 hours to any location on earth.

This keeps nations calm. If we went full isolationist then you'd get China and Russia fighting over Inner Mongolia and India and Pakistan fighting over Kashmir.
 

Poiseon

I am literal poison.
kiwifarms.net
We are a capricious God but we try to be benevolent.

Seriously though nothing good. If the 20th century has taught us anything it's that we cannot go back to a multi polar world with equal powers vying for dominance. When a missile fired from one country can hit another in less then an hour the world has become far to small for game of thrones level shenanigans.

We have also fallen into the Imperial trap. America despite all screeching to the contrary, is the global hegemony. We set the standards and control the peace. And it has been peace. An unprecedented period of peace and economic growth for the whole planet it should be noted. But that peace is dependent on American force to preserve it. Even Europe needs it. Why hasn't spain retaken Gibraltar yet? Are they scared of the UK? Of course they aren't. If they went into Gibraltar tomorrow the UK couldn't do shit about it and neither would the EU. But the danger for Spain is that the USA would do something about it. Because Gibraltar is in Europe and thus covered by the North Atlantic Charter. Which prohibits forcibly changing political boundaries in Europe. Spain can tell the UK to fuck off, but if America shows up with a carrier task force and a brigade of marines they are snookered.

And that is what keeps the peace. Nobody wants to risk going so far over the line America reacts. Even Russia has been circumspect. And that galls them more then most.
Didn't Russia invade and take Crimea with no resistance whatsoever resulting in a Pro-Russian government taking over Ukraine?
 

crocodilian

K. K. K. Rool
kiwifarms.net
Didn't Russia invade and take Crimea with no resistance whatsoever resulting in a Pro-Russian government taking over Ukraine?
Crimea's territorial disputes are older than the United States. Its geographical location has ensured it gets butt-fucked by every little inter-Eurasian tiff possible, yet despite Russia's flaws I would argue it's done the best at keeping the peace there.
 

Poiseon

I am literal poison.
kiwifarms.net
Crimea's territorial disputes are older than the United States. Its geographical location has ensured it gets butt-fucked by every little inter-Eurasian tiff possible, yet despite Russia's flaws I would argue it's done the best at keeping the peace there.
So Russia didn't take over Crimea?
 
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Lemmingwise

Merry Christmas Kiwis
kiwifarms.net
Didn't Russia invade and take Crimea with no resistance whatsoever resulting in a Pro-Russian government taking over Ukraine?
I'm sure that the US' coup of Ukraine leadership (during Obama) had nothing to do with Russia securing their strong strategic presence in the black sea.

Oh, did I say coup? Pardon me. "Democratic revolution".

Here's what Obama said in a CNN interview about it:

And since Mr. Putin made this decision around Crimea and Ukraine — not because of some grand strategy, but essentially because he was caught off-balance by the protests in the Maidan and Yanukovych then fleeing after we had brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine — since that time, this improvisation that he’s been doing has getting — has gotten him deeper and deeper into a situation that is a violation of international law, that violates the integrity, territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, has isolated Russia diplomatically, has made Europe wary of doing business with Russia, has allowed the imposition of sanctions that are crippling Russia’s economy at a time when their oil revenues are dropping.
 
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Clop

kiwifarms.net
It would change fuck all. Just because you pack up and leave doesn't make every other foreign interest and military disappear. You've got a massive war brewing? You call your trade allies for help because they know full well that if they don't join in the fight they'll be next. Besides that, all the talk of nukes flying and new big powers marching in is nonsense, because there is such a thing as a costly war.

Iceland doesn't have its own army but a US base that's been there since the World Wars, and if it left, who the fuck would weigh the costs of taking over and losing favor with their allies and trading partners? Nobody but complete madmen, and madmen don't get spooked by US fatties stretching their egos across the planet.

Get over yourself, 'Murrica.
 

Marco Fucko

the executive producer
kiwifarms.net
Wilsonian interventionism is a term that derives from President Woodrow Wilson. Think; "We aren't fighting a war for oil, we're fighting a war for Democracy!"

This ideology plagues American foreign policy, and is the reason that the United States has over 800 foreign military bases, and is seen as the "World Police."

The question is simple. If the USA ended this policy,and brought all the soldiers and equipment spread around the world home, and returned to letting regions settle their own conflicts, what would the result be? For the world overall, specific regions, the USA itself, etc.
Every country on the planet would immediately REEEEEEEEE at us for support even though they constantly whine about us getting involved. It would certainly be a fine day for bants on /int/, though.

Also, without all that money going to exceptional third worlders we could support the #YangGang.
 

Attachments

ColtWalker1847

kiwifarms.net
So that's it the US must keep the war/military machine rolling until the end of time while the country itself implodes on itself like every empire before them?

Fuck That Noice
Welcome to Pax Americana. If the US takes their ball and goes home there would be a massive hole in world power dynamics where the USN used to be. A navy stronger than every other on earth combined with the ability to project power onto any coastline on earth.

Having a ultra powerful seafaring nation run shit on the seas and enable trade is just the natural order of things and if not the US then who? Do we really want China in charge of this? Will they run international trade networks fairly? Unlikely.

Look, it takes decades to build a powerful navy. Something nations are going to have to do in full view of everyone because it's not like you can hide a shipyard building a nuclear supercarrier. This guarantees a global naval arms race. Then a war. Whoever wins, or is the least fucked in the aftermath, then becomes king of shit mountain leading us into the next era of Pax ___.
 
A

AP 297

Guest
kiwifarms.net
In a sense, the US has taken the role from Britain as the enabler for global trade. Global trade always seems to rely on a power to do this, usually one with a powerful navy.

Simply put without the US, the world spirals into the Abyss in the area of trade.

A Economic/Finance expert, Michael Pettis, that I check up on now and then wrote these back in 2014. He predicted the rise of populists in Europe and other locations long before it happened. He was wrong about Le Pen winning (she hasn't yet) and Trump losing (he won by the electoral college), but he was right about the forces, movements and circumstances behind them being competitive in the first place. Under what were normal circumstances, neither would have had a chance. In our new normal, they do and it is because of these issues he lays out.

https://carnegieendowment.org/chinafinancialmarkets/56822?lang=en

https://carnegieendowment.org/chinafinancialmarkets/56856?lang=en

https://carnegieendowment.org/chinafinancialmarkets/56972

The guy is not perfect and his writings are long, but when you realize what he is saying; it becomes terrifying.
 
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Bootylicious Bootyhole

A guy who just wants to watch the world burn
kiwifarms.net
As much as I hate that we waste so much time, money, effort, and the lives of innocent citizens by trespassing and playing around in other peoples' back yards, I understand that to a degree we are a necessary evil in that regard.

But ya know... could we afford to, maybe, scale it back a little?
 

Bootylicious Bootyhole

A guy who just wants to watch the world burn
kiwifarms.net
Now here's the real question... does the wide scale scenario change all that much if the US influence disappears as a result of America failing and collapsing upon itself as opposed to willingly pulling out of the ordeal as an existing entity?
 
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Recoil

Tactical Autism Response Division
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Someone once told me this and I'm inclined to agree, albeit only partially:

"If the rest of the world ceased to be and America did not, Americans would by and large carry on as usual, most of 'em couldn't GAF about the rest of the world.
If America ceased to be, the rest of the world would fall into chaos within weeks."
 
Q

QI 541

Guest
kiwifarms.net
Nukes for everyone, EU
Someone once told me this and I'm inclined to agree, albeit only partially:

"If the rest of the world ceased to be and America did not, Americans would by and large carry on as usual, most of 'em couldn't GAF about the rest of the world.
If America ceased to be, the rest of the world would fall into chaos within weeks."
He's wrong though Americans would commit mass seppaku over the loss of their anime.
 
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