What would you say to a suicidal person? - Encouraging thoughts and feels

AnOminous

But I'm not mad at anyone.
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I have had several loved ones end their own lives, for selfish and non selfish reasons. It ends their pain, but causes so much more pain, exponentially in others. It isn't worth it.

The fact that you have the right to do something doesn't mean you're right to do it.

I will disagree with this on one respect. People who are terminally ill who choose to die on their own terms deserve respect. I'd rather see a loved one end their own life with dignity rather than die suffering with their dignity and humanity completely erased by suffering. If you've ever seen someone die over the course of months or years with absolutely no joy in life and nothing but suffering, you know what I mean.

Cancer, Alzheimer's, whatever, there are some terminal illnesses that rob you of your humanity, your personality, and your soul, and your existence has no benefit to you or anyone else.
 

Elwood P. Dowd

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Before advising anyone to seek help, figure out their insurance situation. I say this because, assuming this the USA, the patient or their insurance pays for it. All of it. And it is unlikely, but still possible that your acquaintance will get stuck with an ambulance ride (that they'll pay for), a 72 hour mandatory hold (most states have this) that they'll pay for in some sort of psych unit and a whole lot of medications. That they'll, guess what, have to pay for.

Meaning somebody expressing suicidal ideation could get shit out of the anus of the psychiatric industrial complex after 72 hours every bit as miserable as they entered it. Just now with a medical bill running into thousands on top of everything else.

In the US the only people who can afford to be crazy these days are the destitute and the wealthy. If someone has nothing, the hospital just writes it off. If you have money or I guess decent insurance you can afford it. Otherwise, you're probably better off keeping it to yourself.

Want to read something truly horrifying? Here ya go...

Grieving mom is held against her will, but still billed

ESSEX, Vt. — A mother who has been hospitalized against her will for five weeks following a murder-suicide involving her teenage son and her estranged husband says she and her insurance company are being billed for her unwanted treatment.

"I am not ill; I am simply a mother who is grieving the tragic loss of her young son," Christina Schumacher told the Burlington Free Press this week. "No mother should ever have to experience this loss."

Schumacher's situation is an example of a broader concern, said state Rep. Anne Donahue, a longtime advocate for improving treatment in Vermont for the mentally ill.

"People are billed as if they are there voluntarily," Donahue said in a phone interview Tuesday. "It's a bill you didn't ask for and you didn't want."

Schumacher's son, Gunnar, 14, an Essex High School freshman, was strangled by his father, Ludwig "Sonny" Schumacher Jr., 49, who later took his life by hanging, Essex police have said. The bodies were found Dec. 18 at a rented apartment at 8 Carmichael St. in Essex, where Sonny Schumacher lived after the couple separated in July.

Christina Schumacher, 48, was admitted against her will to the secure psych ward at Fletcher Allen Health Care in Burlington the day after the bodies were found. She and friends dispute her need to be confined and said the hospitalization was done without a judge's review.

The involuntary admission, which initially was designated for 72 hours, was ordered by a doctor because mental-health workers believed she "poses a danger to herself and others," court records show.

Schumacher said she has received strong community support since she told her story to the Free Press earlier in January.

-BUR 1218 essex scene C3.jpg_20131218
The Vermont State Police Crime Scene Command Post truck is parked outside an Essex, Vt., apartment building after the bodies of two people were found inside on Dec. 18, 2013. (Photo: Ryan Mercer, The Burlington, Vt. Free Press)

A Vermont Superior Court judge this month is expected to review the clinical order placing Schumacher in the hospital.

Schumacher, who worked at GE Healthcare for about 23 years, said she is trying to work with Fletcher Allen regarding the bill for her five-week-long involuntary hospitalization because it is unneeded.

"Prayer, music, yoga and meditation are my medication," she said.

A question of cost

Donahue, R-Northfield, said she is concerned about patients' being billed when they never sought treatment.

"If they have insurance, they bill the insurance company," Donahue said about hospitals and the treatment team. "All you have to do is be a clinically approved admission. The fact that it is involuntary doesn't change that."

Fletcher Allen spokesman Mike Noble said he could not discuss a specific case, but in general terms he said the cost of hospitalization often is picked up by Medicaid.

He said there are various options, which include that "covered persons might have commercial insurance, Medicare, Medicaid or some combination."

Asked about the possible range of daily charges a patient might face during an involuntary hospitalization, Noble said he would attempt to find somebody with an answer. As of 6:40 p.m., he said he had received no response.

In an email, Noble wrote: "At Fletcher Allen, this cost is usually borne by the patient's insurance, if there is insurance. Some funding, in some cases, is provided by the Department of Mental Health."

He continued: "For those without insurance, Fletcher Allen absorbs the cost. No clinical decision depends on insurance or payment," Noble said.

So who is to pay?

"It is a really good question," Donahue said.

She said a 2009 state report showed the split for the billing for all mental-health patients — voluntary and involuntary admissions.

Medicaid covered 37 percent, and Medicaid handled 29 percent, Donahue said. A patient's insurance company was billed for 23 percent of the cases, and 11 percent have no insurance.

She said she did not have the breakout for those admitted against their will.

Against her will

Schumacher, who had been seeing a psychiatrist for a couple of weeks, arrived for a previously scheduled appointment Dec. 19, the day after the bodies of her estranged husband and her son were found.

It was before her appointment at the University Health Center that her doctor had University of Vermont police on standby to take her into custody if she did not admit herself.

Schumacher declined, so she was detained by police. A UVM police report showed that the officers had to wait for several hours because mental-health staff lacked the proper paperwork to have her legally transported to Fletcher Allen.

"My daughter and I need each other during this grieving process. I love my daughter. I miss her," Schumacher said, referring to Gunnar's older sister. "This is my journey, and in no way is it up to anyone to judge how I mourn."

Fletcher Allen is unable to confirm that Schumacher remains at the hospital. The hospital has told the Burlington Free Press that the newspaper is no longer allowed to visit Schumacher, but phone calls are permitted.

Schumacher contacted the Free Press on Dec. 30 to report she was being held against her will. She asked the newspaper to investigate and continues to speak freely about her ordeal.

Meanwhile, Essex police are continuing to investigate the two deaths, Chief Brad LaRose said Tuesday afternoon.
 

Bassomatic

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Show them my dick. They will either be so jealous they end it or worship it. So kinda a win win.
Before advising anyone to seek help, figure out their insurance situation. I say this because, assuming this the USA, the patient or their insurance pays for it. All of it. And it is unlikely, but still possible that your acquaintance will get stuck with an ambulance ride (that they'll pay for), a 72 hour mandatory hold (most states have this) that they'll pay for in some sort of psych unit and a whole lot of medications. That they'll, guess what, have to pay for.

Meaning somebody expressing suicidal ideation could get shit out of the anus of the psychiatric industrial complex after 72 hours every bit as miserable as they entered it. Just now with a medical bill running into thousands on top of everything else.

In the US the only people who can afford to be crazy these days are the destitute and the wealthy. If someone has nothing, the hospital just writes it off. If you have money or I guess decent insurance you can afford it. Otherwise, you're probably better off keeping it to yourself.

Want to read something truly horrifying? Here ya go...

Grieving mom is held against her will, but still billed
No better way to help someone who's suicidal other than Take their rights freedoms away, and then when you cut them loose, keep a stigma, possible legal trouble and THEN debt. Granted I remember reading a scandal in my state about them forcing you to sign up for insurance, even for those who had it before being admitted, so they were double billing who they could.

Honestly, I rather be falsely claimed for almost any damned crime and sit my ass in a cell vs loony bin with how absurd the laws are, at least if I didn't commit said crime I'd have a chance and day in court to clear my name, while a psyche hold even after those 72 it's gonna haunt you.

I knew someone who went to my high school who had this exact thing happen, and instead of letting him get help alone or end it peacefully he made sure to make it a mess and be found by his parents who committed him. Frankly, serves em right. I can't say I knew him well or what he dealt with but, yea if you really want to to make sure someone jumps how 5150 laws are... save yourself some time and just fucking push em yourself instead of that.
 
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Okkervils

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Maybe I am talking too lightly, not having experienced these issues, but if I should ever consider killing myself, I'd think that I have two parents, siblings, a wife and some friends that'd be devastated by it.
I mean, I'd be essentially leaving them forever and on my own initiative. It'd be unimaginable the amount of pain and grief I'd be inflicting them.

...But if you're truly suicidal, none of that matters at that point. You see everyone as being better off without you, that's why it's referred to as a psychiatric crisis situation, logic isn't going to apply. Your thoughts distort and usually it's out of the person's control.

That's why I suggest 911 and a psych stay to your question if you have proof they intend to harm themselves. Trained professionals should deal with that when it becomes that serious. With or without the individuals consent.

Otherwise, I'd tell them not to overdose on Tylenol because that's a really painful death. Wanna go with something fast and efficient and meds typically aren't the way to do it.

Edit: To expand on the thought process, it'd be like this. My wife? She must hate me. She'll probably want a divorce someday soon and if I kill myself she won't have to spend money on a lawyer. It'll be simpler. My parents are getting sick of me, their lives would be easier if I was gone. Probably the same for my siblings and friends. They'll get over it and whatever distress they do feel isn't going to be comparable to the distress I will cause sticking around.
 
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Maiden-TieJuan

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The fact that you have the right to do something doesn't mean you're right to do it.

I will disagree with this on one respect. People who are terminally ill who choose to die on their own terms deserve respect. I'd rather see a loved one end their own life with dignity rather than die suffering with their dignity and humanity completely erased by suffering. If you've ever seen someone die over the course of months or years with absolutely no joy in life and nothing but suffering, you know what I mean.

Cancer, Alzheimer's, whatever, there are some terminal illnesses that rob you of your humanity, your personality, and your soul, and your existence has no benefit to you or anyone else.
Oh I totally agree with you on this point. If you are terminal you absolutely have the right to choose your own end.
 
R

RG 448

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I’d encourage them to seek professional help. Dealing with an all-consuming feeling of hopelessness and dread is like trying to keep your head above water during a storm: it’s overwhelming and it takes up all your attention most of the time. Things that used to distract you or make you happy can’t anymore; everything just becomes white noise. And no two people go through it the same way. So yeah, I’d let them know I’m there if they need to talk or want company but would encourage them to seek out someone who’s studied the human psyche as we understand it. Tough love and platitudes don’t counteract chemical imbalances in the brain. Get that shit handled by a professional.
 
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