Where the Sidewalk Ends: The Death of the Internet

Uncle Sid

only thing better than a good meal is a free meal
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Sep 9, 2021
I've been thinking about a meshnet message board for a long time. Technically easy to set up, but how do you create a seamless online experience without a central server? Like, it's one thing to just shoot posts across the network but how do you ensure they appear chronologically, and how do you check if everyone has roughly the same version of the board?

The only idea I have is exceptional, and you'd have your client pinging the network at set intervals and pulling down any changes since it last checked. It leads to a huge amount of othe issues.
I am loath to even say it, but this is the kind of thing a blockchain might actually be useful for.

The problem is how do you create a permanent, uncensorable medium and prevent bad actors from poisoning the chain (and thus all participants) with illegal content? The best solution I can come up with is the "everyone is an NNTP server" one, where each person is responsible for what and how much of any group they have stored locally, and so each person has the option of avoiding questionable groups or banning content from flagged users before it's downloaded to their own instance.

ETA: typo fix
 

Maysif Fayget

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
I share your opinion of the enviable Balkanisation of the Internet and I’ve hit a brick wall trying to explain this to people. Most everyone is online seems obsessed with either crypto, cooming or consooming and expects the Internet will be a permanent fixture.
 

ScatmansWorld

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
and now it's all moving to Wickr. Every time I hear of a new privacy based programme, there's always the news later that it's being used for illegal stuff like that.
Wickr-AWS-Logo_white.png

aws.png

"""Privacy based"""
 

obsdj

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Jun 23, 2021
I firmly believe that (a) the vast majority of this site's registered users would use the .onion address if forced to, and (b) if that happened, this site would be the best-run forum on Tor.
Given how centralized the Internet has become, is it really so much of an ask anymore to ask users to open a different browser for one of the few interesting sites left?
I know you said on your article that you believe content which is not illegal should not be hidden away from the masses on the Internet, but have you ever considered using BBS or Usenet to keep KiwiFarms alive in the past? I was surprised how much effort it took to keep this site alive and wondered why not just abandon this Internet we are accustomed to (which is for sure falling apart as you said) and try something else that's easier

As with all civil rights, when the question is, “Why don’t you just do this other thing?” the answer is, “Because I shouldn’t have to.” Why didn’t Rosa Parks just stay in the back of the bus? It would’ve been easy and she wouldn’t have had any trouble. Why doesn’t KF just set up shop on Tor or some other service where they won’t attract attention? Because they shouldn’t have to. No one should have to take a single additional step just to enjoy a right they already have, in this case freedom of expression, just to make sure some other people don’t give them trouble for it.
The biggest problem we have is the Legislature is oblivious to how bad things have gotten. The senior leaders are in on it sure, but the rank and file are a bunch of ancient boomers who think the internet is a series of tubes.
Yet another reason why term limits are desperately needed in legislature. So many lawmakers are just shy of turning into fossil fuel, and even many of the relatively young(er) ones are offensively uninformed in matters of technology. It’s unavoidable that tech will always outpace the legal process, but allowing people to remain in legislative power for decades while continents drift and glaciers approach is no way to keep our laws anywhere near in touch with current reality, technological or otherwise.
 

Yet Another Wanker

Burn Heretics at the Stake.
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Still blows my mind you guys didn't have a bank service like fednow. Really take for granted I can just send money to anyone in canada at any time. I think mexico also recently started implementing it.
You have no idea the amount of hoops the USA has for even the most basic of financial services.
 

TheSkoomer

Ahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
I'm a big fan of the Tor solution.
But a bigger fan of the I2P solution. I2P's Garlic Routing is a better implementation and the network is better decentralized than Tor.

Anyone with a home internet connection, a shitty computer, and an IQ above NPC can set up a site on I2P that is near DDoS-proof (I2P has much better bandwidth/Get-request/POST-request controls than Tor.)

>The internet is dying

Good. How do we contribute?
Read "Industrial Society and its Future" + "SIEGE" + "Harassment Architecture"

My solution: an open-source app that allows anyone to turn their phone (or PC) into its own NNTP server. Each person gets to personally decide what groups are important to them, and how much content per group to retain/share. Throw in some mesh networking so that you can bypass the trad ISPs entirely if you want to.

HTTP is dead. Long live NNTP. Asynchronous. Decentralized. Ungovernable.
We had this, it was called NNTPchan, it spanned across Tor and I2P, and even had a few sites on the clearweb. It was an NNTP server backend with multiple web frontends. Every site hosting a frontend had all the same boards and all the same posts. If you posted on one, you posted on all. I can not find any remaining frontends, they all seem gone.

One could also just run a plain old NNTP server with no web frontend, like "INN2"

Or just log into Usenet and join a discussion group. It's still up, and the free servers often allow text posting.
 

Uncle Sid

only thing better than a good meal is a free meal
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Sep 9, 2021
Why didn’t Rosa Parks just stay in the back of the bus? It would’ve been easy and she wouldn’t have had any trouble. Why doesn’t KF just set up shop on Tor or some other service where they won’t attract attention? Because they shouldn’t have to.

This just in: Kiwifarms is the Rosa Parks of the Internet.
 

Bear Ass

gender fascist
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
I recall some old systems like Freenet that I loved the idea behind. Similar to Tor I guess, and has a nice touch of the old early internet wild west of finding randos blogs and what not.

It just hurts that a lot of these options are also hijacked and used by folk like pedos. Double edged sword and all, bleh. Telegram is horribly popular for shit like that I hear, and now it's all moving to Wickr. Every time I hear of a new privacy based programme, there's always the news later that it's being used for illegal stuff like that.

"I believe that all US legal content should be accessible by a regular person with an ordinary web browser" Exactly what I'd want too, yeah. I can understand wanting privacy via person to person communication and your own identity privacy via browsing, but censorship of a whole website is gross, despite how iffy the content might be.

Hell, the harder someone tries to hide something, the more people want to look into it. I'm sure many people have curiously came to visit and stayed after being told not to come here because of how horrible it is.
I call this the "first adopter problem", in which the main constituent of alternative services are people who a) have previously been banned from the bigger sites, b) are completely intolerable to others for any number of reasons, or both.

Of course, the average KF user probably wouldn't care, even if the constant politisperging/MAPposting/fedposting/loliposting/whatever the fuck else would be irritating. (See: the Fediverse).

However, the normies are not going to come to a site full of these people and absolutely nothing else. There's a certain requirement of brave people to dive into a platform full of shit and garbage and make it less so, and there are less and less people capable of that kind of thing all the time. Normies can barely comprehend the idea of a troll and can only take things at face value.
 

AnOminous

Only the kindest and friendliest of all Goodmans
Retired Staff
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Why doesn’t KF just set up shop on Tor or some other service where they won’t attract attention? Because they shouldn’t have to. No one should have to take a single additional step just to enjoy a right they already have, in this case freedom of expression, just to make sure some other people don’t give them trouble for it.
It's also not reasonable at the volume of traffic the site gets and unfortunately, is even worse to mitigate against DDoS on. There are less censorable services like Freenet and I2P, but unfortunately, they are inconvenient enough most normie users are going to use them. Hence much of the traffic just ends up being people committing genuine FPMITA prison level crimes.
Normies can barely comprehend the idea of a troll and can only take things at face value.
"Troll" is an increasingly meaningless term. At this point it just means "someone said something I disagree with, make the bad man stop."
 

Slap47

Hehe xd
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
"muh decentralized networks!!" is a cope, and reality we just need to embrace the dystopian suck, and be happy that the boomers that rule us, don't understand the first thing about internet infrastructure otherwise things would be a lot worse than they are now.
Boomers like censorship and the people they created also like censorship. I assume you're just being silly though.
 

Darsheel

Currently hitting the drum
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Honestly with how shit the arabian internet is ( where i am from ) which is either some gay drama between some slutty arabs or said arabs reeing about how people think her content shit and is a massive narcisst made even worse by the fact that if they sue they will 100% win the lawsuit also have fun with paying half of a 100k and the less we talk about most middle eastern governments the better so i would pretty much quit the internet if it happened