White Settlement Church Shooting -

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There is an amazing level of cognitive dissonance going on in all of the people who are arguing that Jack Wilson and the other armed members of the church are in the wrong for shooting someone who had just murdered two people in cold blood.

The fact that they see if as a wrong that the man defended himself and justly defended the people around him, is exactly the reason why law abiding citizens should have the right to bare arms and use them in self defense.
Gun restrictions don't work, one only needs to look at Mexico to see how removing the private citizens rights to arm themselves is wrong.
 

AnOminous

Really?
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
The fact that they see if as a wrong that the man defended himself and justly defended the people around him, is exactly the reason why law abiding citizens should have the right to bare arms and use them in self defense.
If they acknowledge that was actually a good thing, they acknowledge their argument for gun-grabbing has at least one salient flaw. I think it ultimately really weakens your argument, though, when you simply refuse to acknowledge its flaws. They could argue, for instance, something about this statistically not being the universal outcome, and that, for instance, outcomes are worse when the armed citizen responding isn't as well trained and accidentally hits bystanders instead or just ends up the first person being shot.

Just pretending this didn't happen at all, though, makes you look like a reality-denying idiot.

I do think this particular situation showed the optimal ability to respond, i.e., having armed, trained individuals salted through a vulnerable population who have actually drilled on what to do in exactly this kind of situation. I think a lot of shooters, faced with the likelihood that their target population would respond like this one, would reconsider their actions. Even the crazies actually want a kill count, not just to be shot down like a dog within seconds.
 

JohnDoe

Who needs pants to post on KF?
kiwifarms.net
I think a lot of shooters, faced with the likelihood that their target population would respond like this one, would reconsider their actions. Even the crazies actually want a kill count, not just to be shot down like a dog within seconds.
Exactly. The only reason that past mass shooters were successful is the same reason the 9/11 hijackers succeeded - an unwillingness or inability for victims to put up a fight. It took a few years and a few deaths from mid-flight dogpiling before people just stopped getting frisky. Same principle applies here, but with shooting. If we can build up a streak of loser shooters getting trash KD ratios with minimal news coverage the rate of incidents would drop like a stone.

We'd still get the occasional nutter like the Youtube shooter or Vegas but those were outliers anyway.
 

Lord of the Large Pants

Chicks dig giant robots.
kiwifarms.net
Exactly. The only reason that past mass shooters were successful is the same reason the 9/11 hijackers succeeded - an unwillingness or inability for victims to put up a fight. It took a few years and a few deaths from mid-flight dogpiling before people just stopped getting frisky. Same principle applies here, but with shooting. If we can build up a streak of loser shooters getting trash KD ratios with minimal news coverage the rate of incidents would drop like a stone.

We'd still get the occasional nutter like the Youtube shooter or Vegas but those were outliers anyway.
Even 9/11 had some reasoning behind it though as far as why they didn't fight back. Up until that point, plane hijackings were generally ransom jobs. They wanted money, not bodies. So you do whatever the hijacker says until you can land the plane and then the police sniper shoots him in the head. It had never occurred to anyone that hijackers would be crazy enough to fly a plane into a freaking building with them still on board. It just wasn't a thing. So there was a logic to it that had more or less held historically until that point.

But like you said, there's a lesson there. If the old tactics don't work anymore, it's time to try something new.
 

AnOminous

Really?
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
Even 9/11 had some reasoning behind it though as far as why they didn't fight back. Up until that point, plane hijackings were generally ransom jobs. They wanted money, not bodies. So you do whatever the hijacker says until you can land the plane and then the police sniper shoots him in the head. It had never occurred to anyone that hijackers would be crazy enough to fly a plane into a freaking building with them still on board. It just wasn't a thing. So there was a logic to it that had more or less held historically until that point.
The logic broke on that day and the passengers on Flight 93 had already heard on the radio what happened. They decided to fight even if it ended in the flight crashing into the ground since just waiting to die didn't make much more sense.
 

Coleslaw

kiwifarms.net
Exactly. The only reason that past mass shooters were successful is the same reason the 9/11 hijackers succeeded - an unwillingness or inability for victims to put up a fight. It took a few years and a few deaths from mid-flight dogpiling before people just stopped getting frisky. Same principle applies here, but with shooting. If we can build up a streak of loser shooters getting trash KD ratios with minimal news coverage the rate of incidents would drop like a stone.

We'd still get the occasional nutter like the Youtube shooter or Vegas but those were outliers anyway.
Flight 93 did fight back but it didn't matter.
 

Promestein

Stayしがちなイメージだらけの 頼りない翼でも きっと飛べるさ
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its "amazing" how little coverage this got compared to other shootings, even smaller ones. almost as if it didnt fit their agenda or something, but that cant be, right? they wouldnt be so flagrant about it, right?
 

millais

The Yellow Rose of Victoria, Texas
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
its "amazing" how little coverage this got compared to other shootings, even smaller ones. almost as if it didnt fit their agenda or something, but that cant be, right? they wouldnt be so flagrant about it, right?
It's hard to make a big outcry about banning AR-15 when the murderer is using a pump action shotgun.
 

Salty Boris

You have good taste.
kiwifarms.net
its "amazing" how little coverage this got compared to other shootings, even smaller ones. almost as if it didnt fit their agenda or something, but that cant be, right? they wouldnt be so flagrant about it, right?
I know you’re probably being rhetorical but they would and they are. They don’t even try to hide it any more, it’s literally the craziest time in America now. The media was ostensively a friend of the people, it’s why the The Constitution goes to such lengths to protect them.

They are now effectively enemies of the people trying to lead them to a certain viewpoint on a range of issues, from elections to gun control. It was bound to happen, they’re people but it has truly accelerated the past couple decades.

On gun control it’s nothing more than virtue signaling which I don’t understand the reasoning for. Yes accidents happen, legally purchased firearms are used to commit crimes. Overall though there are millions of gun owners who cause no issues and sometimes prevent issues.

People drink and drive, speed and kill other motorists by mistake on a daily basis. Sometimes they even use vehicles as a weapon. Should we talk about controlling cars next?
 

TerribleIdeas™

Master of Cunt-Puppets
kiwifarms.net
I know you’re probably being rhetorical but they would and they are. They don’t even try to hide it any more, it’s literally the craziest time in America now. The media was ostensively a friend of the people, it’s why the The Constitution goes to such lengths to protect them.

They are now effectively enemies of the people trying to lead them to a certain viewpoint on a range of issues, from elections to gun control. It was bound to happen, they’re people but it has truly accelerated the past couple decades.

On gun control it’s nothing more than virtue signaling which I don’t understand the reasoning for. Yes accidents happen, legally purchased firearms are used to commit crimes. Overall though there are millions of gun owners who cause no issues and sometimes prevent issues.

People drink and drive, speed and kill other motorists by mistake on a daily basis. Sometimes they even use vehicles as a weapon. Should we talk about controlling cars next?
Listen here, Mr Tarrant, we can't have you openly discussing accelerationism, like this.
 
Exactly. The only reason that past mass shooters were successful is the same reason the 9/11 hijackers succeeded - an unwillingness or inability for victims to put up a fight. It took a few years and a few deaths from mid-flight dogpiling before people just stopped getting frisky. Same principle applies here, but with shooting. If we can build up a streak of loser shooters getting trash KD ratios with minimal news coverage the rate of incidents would drop like a stone.

We'd still get the occasional nutter like the Youtube shooter or Vegas but those were outliers anyway.
The YouTube shooter did nothing wrong.
 
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