Why do recent Mexican (legal or illegal) immigrants to American so often identify as white, even when they're very visibly mestizo or even Indio? - And how would that theoretically affect census taking in America?

Iwasamwillbe

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I've listened to conversations from black store owners and their clients about this exact issue. I find it interesting because, despite the racial caste system of colonial Spain being long gone, apparently there are still visibly non-(entirely) white Mexicans, Chileans, etc, who would rather identify as white. I think the information will also prove useful in determining demographics.
 

Tootsie Bear

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Look at from their perspective: Would you rather identify as white or Native American? I take it they identify more with white because they understand their culture has more to do with Spanish culture then it does with Native American. However, I have seen Chicanos who prefer to identify as Native American because they don't want to be seen as the bastard offspring of Spanish/Native Americans aka. Mestizo.
 

A Cardboard Box

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Mexicans are the next white folks. Just like Italians, Irish, and Scandinavians originally were nigger trash, the Mexicans will ascend to whitehood and vote conservative. We're already seeing this happen. In 2012 80% of hispanics considered themselves "left leaning" now it's 60% or less. Mexicans are becoming the new middle class as their hard work and generational wealth rolls over onto their children. In states like Texas you're seeing a huge Mexican Flight from the inner cities, where the children of hard working lower class Mexican families are taking their hard fought education and middle class jobs and getting the fuck out to the suburbs.
 

Austrian Conscript 1915

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Mexicans are the next white folks. Just like Italians, Irish, and Scandinavians originally were nigger trash, the Mexicans will ascend to whitehood and vote conservative. We're already seeing this happen. In 2012 80% of hispanics considered themselves "left leaning" now it's 60% or less. Mexicans are becoming the new middle class as their hard work and generational wealth rolls over onto their children. In states like Texas you're seeing a huge Mexican Flight from the inner cities, where the children of hard working lower class Mexican families are taking their hard fought education and middle class jobs and getting the fuck out to the suburbs.
Central Americans aren't the same as cubans, uruguayans and argentinians or even Chileans. These whiter latin american populations are advancing well into society while those coming from Central American (Guatemala, Honduras, the Chiapas, Yucatan etc.) have largely floundered.

You must define the Hispanics you are talking about because they are such a wide group of people that saying "all Latin Americans are x" is pointless. And also it took one or two generations for the Europeans to fit in, while the Central Americans still have notable distinctions in society
 

A Cardboard Box

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Central Americans aren't the same as cubans, uruguayans and argentinians or even Chileans. These whiter latin american populations are advancing well into society while those coming from Central American (Guatemala, Honduras, the Chiapas, Yucatan etc.) have largely floundered.

You must define the Hispanics you are talking about because they are such a wide group of people that saying "all Latin Americans are x" is pointless. And also it took one or two generations for the Europeans to fit in, while the Central Americans still have notable distinctions in society
Republicans poll better with central americans than they do Mexicans, but it doesn't matter, the change is taking place across the entire demographic. Also I said "Mexicans" about a dozen times. Learn to fucking read.

Also it took more than a couple generations. German was America's second language until the world wars, little Italy still exists in New York, and the Italian and Sicilian mobs ran their respective demographics until the 70s and 80s. The Scandinavians still have enclaves in northern states like Wisconsin.
 

Pepito The Cat

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Mexico always had caste system based on race, all South American countries have one. Thing with Mexico is that the divide between the riches and the poor is super abysmal. Mexican Elites live like literal sultans and look down hard on the impoverished masses, that's one of the reasons why drug trafficking is so prominent: it's one of the few options the truly poor rural folk has to step up from being dirt poor. Said Elites like to consider themselves white because reasons and border hoppers try to adopt those beliefs in America, although I'm sure there isn't a single true white Mexican out there. Everyone has mixed blood.

Except me. I'm white. Trust me. It's in my avatar.
 

Papa Adolfo's Take'n'Bake

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Mexico always had caste system based on race, all South American countries have one. Thing with Mexico is that the divide between the riches and the poor is super abysmal. Mexican Elites live like literal sultans and look down hard on the impoverished masses, that's one of the reasons why drug trafficking is so prominent: it's one of the few options the truly poor rural folk has to step up from being dirt poor. Said Elites like to consider themselves white because reasons and border hoppers try to adopt those beliefs in America, although I'm sure there isn't a single true white Mexican out there. Everyone has mixed blood.

Except me. I'm white. Trust me. It's in my avatar.
This. They want to redefine themselves as Castizos de Los Estados Unidos. Never really works tho. The funniest part is some of the fags that use skin whitening cream.
 
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The Last Stand

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I would think it's based on skin tone alone.

I didn't know Hispanic meant White in some cases.
 
I've seen many Mexicans, the lightest ones tan easily like Europeans in the Mediterranean or Armenians and Georgians. I knew guys of Portuguese and Sicilian ancestry that could pass for Latino or Middle Eastern. At one time Middle Eastern folks labeled themselves at white because they didn't consider themselves black or Asian.
 

Austrian Conscript 1915

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Republicans poll better with central americans than they do Mexicans, but it doesn't matter, the change is taking place across the entire demographic. Also I said "Mexicans" about a dozen times. Learn to fucking read.

Also it took more than a couple generations. German was America's second language until the world wars, little Italy still exists in New York, and the Italian and Sicilian mobs ran their respective demographics until the 70s and 80s. The Scandinavians still have enclaves in northern states like Wisconsin.
Here's something that you don't hear because people see it as irrelevant, but it's really not. Southern Mexico and Northern Mexico are VERY different. You simply cannot put a blanket term "Mexican" to describe all Mexican immigrants. People from the north live on par with America but Mexicans more close to central America live in squalor. A lot of the time it isn't Mexicans crossing the border it's people from the central American countries, and also southern parts of Mexico. People travel to America's southern border so often that legit Africans from Africa have flown there to cross illegally. And I have no idea where you got the idea that republicans poll well with Guatemalans and other central americans when Trump has made active measures (including the third safe country agreement) to send these people back. The republicans poll well with Cubans and venezuelans because those are the only people that have experienced socialism.

And no german wasn't a "second language," at the height of the German speaking population in America (which was about 1910, right before WW1) there were 3 million German speakers out of a population of about 100 million. does 3% of the population sound like a lot to you? Right now somewhere around 17% of the US population speaks Spanish, Spanish is way more of a "second language" than German ever was.
 

A Cardboard Box

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Here's something that you don't hear because people see it as irrelevant, but it's really not. Southern Mexico and Northern Mexico are VERY different. You simply cannot put a blanket term "Mexican" to describe all Mexican immigrants. People from the north live on par with America but Mexicans more close to central America live in squalor. A lot of the time it isn't Mexicans crossing the border it's people from the central American countries, and also southern parts of Mexico. People travel to America's southern border so often that legit Africans from Africa have flown there to cross illegally. And I have no idea where you got the idea that republicans poll well with Guatemalans and other central americans when Trump has made active measures (including the third safe country agreement) to send these people back. The republicans poll well with Cubans and venezuelans because those are the only people that have experienced socialism.

And no german wasn't a "second language," at the height of the German speaking population in America (which was about 1910, right before WW1) there were 3 million German speakers out of a population of about 100 million. does 3% of the population sound like a lot to you? Right now somewhere around 17% of the US population speaks Spanish, Spanish is way more of a "second language" than German ever was.
Red herrings. And yes, Spanish is a second language in the US, which is why everything is also in Spanish. German was commonly spoken in the midwest in the oughts and German was the largest foreign population around that time, as well. This was a deciding factor in American neutrality.

I didn't talk about being conditions or squalor or any of the other bullshit. I don't care. I couldn't care less. The US Census Bureau doesn't care. Pollsters don't care. Mexicans, northern, southern, however you want to slice it, are assimilating. Central americans poll well with Republicans. Cubans poll well with Republicans. you're arguing points that I didn't bring up and don't matter.
 

PozzedByCoronachan

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As someone from South America I can tell you it's fundamentally about social status and the perceived notion of Natives as poor and backward savages.
Think of it this way, when the Spanish first set up shop in Latin America, they made absolutely sure everyone knew they were on top, with mainlandborn Spaniards (Peninsulares) and, to a lesser extent, their colonyborn children (Criollos) pretty much running the colonies, with the Natives and Africans being at the bottom of the system.
contentItem-11050631-102170616-d1wwudi0xw0hd-or.pngGraph for reference, doesn't include Castizos and the like but it's a good enough summary of the caste system in the colonies.

500 years on, the caste system is no longer legally a thing, but socioculturally it's very much still in place (At least down here in Chile, being European is still a massive bonus and I bet in Mexico too). You go to the rich upper class neighbourhoods of Latin America, and the people are either white or a good few shades lighter than the average commoner. I don't have any studies on hand but if you've lived down here you can confirm what I'm saying here.
admixture.png

In a way, when an obviously mestizo latino is telling you they're white, it's probably done as a way to try and boost their own standing in society, based on how it works back home, or maybe they're just ignorant of the native blood in them. Not to mention that the Natives have gotten assfucked for centuries now and since people have Spanish names and live in Spanish-built cities speaking Spanish, it's easy to understand why they appeal more to one half of their blood over the other.
 
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Austrian Conscript 1915

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Red herrings. And yes, Spanish is a second language in the US, which is why everything is also in Spanish. German was commonly spoken in the midwest in the oughts and German was the largest foreign population around that time, as well. This was a deciding factor in American neutrality.

I didn't talk about being conditions or squalor or any of the other bullshit. I don't care. I couldn't care less. The US Census Bureau doesn't care. Pollsters don't care. Mexicans, northern, southern, however you want to slice it, are assimilating. Central americans poll well with Republicans. Cubans poll well with Republicans. you're arguing points that I didn't bring up and don't matter.
I really couldn't think more differently than you. I believe the Hispanics are barely assimilating, and that these facts that "don't matter" which I brought up are, in fact, very important when discussing assimilation and demographics. There are different groups of Hispanics which exist, and if you're talking about "all Hispanics" in the USA then you're also talking about the European Spanish as well, because the census bureau counts those european immigrants as Hispanics. Maybe the all the Hispanics that vote for the republicans are actually just European Spanish, but, to you that possibility wouldn't matter because "nobody cares."

Taking a closer look at things is worth the trouble because you get closer to the truth.
 
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