Why do you criticize/dislike/hate Donald John Trump Senior? - Come criticize the US's 45th President here

Philosophy Zombie

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Is there something necessarily wrong with nativism?
I dunno why you keep pestering me to respond to your posts by picking a contrarian liberal opinion I post apart line by line and literally creating two new threads in the board to this purpose because of how assmad you are but yeah I don't have time for this. You said all you wanted was some kind of alternative view and you got it. This isn't a debate thread.
 

Iwasamwillbe

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I dunno why you keep pestering me to respond to your posts by picking a contrarian liberal opinion I post apart line by line and literally creating two new threads in the board to this purpose because of how assmad you are but yeah I don't have time for this. You said all you wanted was some kind of alternative view and you got it. This isn't a debate thread.
I'm not pestering you to do anything, nor am I "assmad".

The rest of the posts I left alone, and I only picked apart a portion of your post that I felt was egregiously inaccurate.

I made this thread with the point of getting alternative views, yes. I didn't say, however, that that's all I wanted, or that this was necessarily not a debate thread. Don't put words in my mouth.
 

BILLY MAYS

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Donald John Trump gives true and honest orange people like me a bad name.

What Saddam did in the Gulf was potatoes compared to what Trump has done.
 

c-no

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Never really gave any care about Trump and I never paid much attention beyond some of the shit posted on the Farms. As an apolitical guy whose pessimistic towards politicians, I would pretty much say he's like the rest in screwing people over. While TDS is a wild ride, I will say I don't like the guy since I find the wall to be a waste of money since there will always be a way to get around it. Beyond that, I just can't say much else other than his tweets being dumb spergings (though I will admire the fact they could squeeze out excess salt from some other spergs). He's another suit so I'm already thinking he's like the rest in fucking us all in the ass.
 

Dangerhair

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Donald Trump has always been good at one thing: spending Fred Trump and other people's money to boost his name. 2016 was the worst campaign I have ever seen. Trump just did his thing, and the media ate it up (giving him something like $3bn in free publicity), and Hillary basically campaigned on "I'm Not Trump", except for August and September when she didn't campaign at all.

In two years in office, he hasn't actually accomplished anything asides from appointing two Supreme Court justices, and that was literally only because he was in the right place at the right time. The Wall is stupid because most illegal immigrants enter the USA legally and overstay visas, and the wall will simply lead to illegal immigrants finding other ways around. He can't seem to stick to any one position long enough to have any action done on it, and even with the shambolic Democrats, he still can't get anything of note done.

He has zero conservative bona fides, and is, in fact, a RINO. He doesn't have anything close to a coherent political position. Is this necessarily a bad thing? No. In fact, it's refreshing in a way- I'm certainly glad it was Trump that got the nod rather than Ted Cruz, who would have started WWIII with a smile on his face because Jesus told him to. It's just a pity that his positions are the worst mix of know-nothingism, populist pandering, and empty promises. He isn't Mussolini, he's the other side of the Bernie Sanders (a man who never had a full-time job outside politics) coin- make a bunch of feel-good empty promises you have no way of paying for and some slogans to appeal to those who feel left behind (MAGA/Build the Wall, Crime will Fall vs. Revolution/ Bankers, Wall Street, a handfulla billionaires). Because he doesn't understand what a coherent position looks like, he has trouble forming one and sticking to it, which undermines his one good quality, which is not being afraid to call out something he disagrees with instead of mushmouthing it.

His affinity for strongmen worries me- and no, not Putin. Russia is a regional power, propped up by a shady petro-kleptocracy with a massive brain drain. All they can do is rattle a sabre at CIS states. It's a master manipulator like Xi Jinping, who is molding himself into a dictator for life, taking advantage of Trump's facile nature and vanity, and not understanding what a phrase like "mutual respect" ("roll over and do exactly what the Communist Party of China wants") means. Xi will roll Trump every time, while everyone is preoccupied with Putin crowing "Rossiya STRONK!"

His supporters are frustrating, because more than anything, they can't actually defend the man so they resort to whataboutism. "But Hillary! But Obama! Bwahaha liberal progressive snowflake cucks!" Okay, but your guy is President.

He' s even made the opposition worse. He's so profoundly distasteful that the Democrats now have a huge bench and are just reflexively anti-Republican on everything. They have no clear frontrunner, which they should have had by 2017, and incoherent positions, when what they really need is a platform that can fit on a napkin.

If I were a Democratic Party strategist?

Three or five points, and not focus on Trump. Effective, yet humane border control. A jobs platform for skilled and unskilled workers, and the self-employed. Build on Obamacare and make it better. Trade agreements that work, cultivating relationships with allies and helping them defend themselves rather than relying on US basing. Stay clear of gun and culture issues this cycle- everyone is fed up with that. If you need a signature issue, make it targeting gerrymandering or legalizing recreational marijuana (and that could parlay into prison reform, ending the school-to-prison pipeline, issues that SJWs eat up yet are cost effective; all they need do is point out how badly just locking 'em up has gone). Above all, realize that OLD PEOPLE, NOT YOUNG PEOPLE vote. The people that watch cable news, and post Minion memes on Facebook. Target them. Blitz purple states. You're not flipping Texas this cycle and probably not Florida, so don't put all your eggs in those baskets. Pennsylvania and Ohio should be big on the list. And when "But Hillary" is trotted out, say only "Ms. Clinton has declined to run for president at this time. We thank her for her efforts."
 
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The Last Stand

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His fanbase as well can be described as intolerable. From what I've seen, any criticism of Trump is responded by: "What about Hillary? Or Obama? Get out of my country then!..." etc. etc. They pretty much eat up what he says and dismiss any legitimate criticism of him. Basically, picking and choosing what is "right" and "wrong" to make themselves look better.
 
i like the guy because he's the only major political force in the west that opposes globalism and leftist cuckoldry, but he's still a clown and can't be taken seriously as a person.

most of his political positions are good, but the guy himself is repulsive. and i'm not talking about outrage memes like pussy grabbing here, i'm talking about his general way of speaking (and writing) - his language resembles that of a 9 year old special needs child, it's really bizarre.
This. This captures how I feel about him too, although I wouldn't say I like the guy as much as I'd say I like what he's doing.

I don't get people insisting he's just terrible at the policy part. If that's the case, why is unemployment so good? Why is the economy doing well?

He really is a fucking clown though.
 

Absolutego

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In terms of actions he's done as president my main criticism is deficit-funding another fucking tax cut in the middle of an economic boom. It was dumb when Dubya did it, and it's dumb now. If he's retarded enough to listen to Bolton and get boots on the ground in Venezuela I'll add that to the list.

I do like how his election has served as an "Emperor has no clothes" moment for many voters, and how it causes the corrupt lizard people who inhabit our capital/institutions to embarrass themselves by either responding to his weak-ass Boomer-tier bait or by attempting to copy said weak-ass bait and coming off as even more fake and pandering than Trump himself.
 

Iwasamwillbe

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The Wall is stupid because most illegal immigrants enter the USA legally and overstay visas, and the wall will simply lead to illegal immigrants finding other ways around.
Every time I read this type of argument, I stand it less and less.

Saying that the wall is stupid because "muh visa overstays" is akin to saying that locking up your doors and windows is pointless because your unruly and unwanted roommate won't leave your house.

Saying that the wall is stupid because it can theoretically be bypassed is akin to saying that windows are useless because they can be smashed through.

And how will an illegal alien coming across the border from the Mexican desert find the time, energy, and resources to construct these wall bypassing mechanisms anyway?

We still have border guards, keep in mind.
 

KimCoppolaAficionado

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Every time I read this type of argument, I stand it less and less.

Saying that the wall is stupid because "muh visa overstays" is akin to saying that locking up your doors and windows is pointless because your unruly and unwanted roommate won't leave your house.

Saying that the wall is stupid because it can theoretically be bypassed is akin to saying that windows are useless because they can be smashed through.

And how will an illegal alien coming across the border from the Mexican desert find the time, energy, and resources to construct these wall bypassing mechanisms anyway?

We still have border guards, keep in mind.
I would advise looking up the efficiency of the Berlin Wall, and then factor in that this wall will be almost 2,000 miles in length and not run entirely through urban areas, but also through vast stretches of desert, and that the cartels are very dedicated to getting drugs into the US. They already use extensive tunnel systems to circumvent the border: what, exactly, is going to stop them from digging under the wall, or just buying a couple ladders at El Walmart and jury-rigging them together?
 

Absolutego

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The Wall is only sensible in the sense that it will take a literal wall across the border to convince idiots in Honduras and Guatemala that the USA might actually refuse them entry as opposed to welcoming them in with open arms. With a wall in place, maybe they'll stop listening to NGOs telling them to form caravans and storm the border.

Its use as an actual means to prevent the most common forms of illegal immigration is minimal.
 

Iwasamwillbe

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I would advise looking up the efficiency of the Berlin Wall, and then factor in that this wall will be almost 2,000 miles in length and not run entirely through urban areas, but also through vast stretches of desert, and that the cartels are very dedicated to getting drugs into the US. They already use extensive tunnel systems to circumvent the border: what, exactly, is going to stop them from digging under the wall, or just buying a couple ladders at El Walmart and jury-rigging them together?
The Berlin wall was actually very effective for its time, as @BigRuler said, and we have border guards to close tunnels and tip over ladders.
 

Dangerhair

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Nobody except for some fringe libertarians are calling for open borders.

Of course the border should be protected, it's just that a wall is just about the least efficient way of doing so, and the money spent on the wall could better be spent on, say, drones and sensors and use the remainder to crack down on visa overstays.
 
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KimCoppolaAficionado

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the berlin wall (and the inner german border in general, which spanned a couple hundred miles) was pretty damn effective overall. while it existed (which it did for around 30 years), only around 40.000 people managed to successfully escape the GDR across the inner german border, compared to over 500.000 who escaped by other means (other countries, ransomed, legal emigration, etc.) and 3.5 million who escaped during the 15 years before the berlin wall was built.

this idea that a border can't be protected is complete bullshit.
1. I'm not saying the border can't be protected, I'm saying the "great big beautiful wall" is pretty much the worst way to go about it.
2. The actual physical Berlin wall isn't the thing that was effective, as @AnOminous pointed out, the fact that the other side of the wall was a nest of vipers and the wall was crawling with men with orders to shoot anyone who tried to get in or out illegally. Let me use a much better example: the Korean DMZ. While not a physical wall, it is crawling with guards and covered with razorwire and mines. It's also not very effective, given the number of North Koreans who manage to escape the country for the relative freedom and plenty of South Korea. It's also 1/10th the size of the US-Mexico border. So the real question is this: do you believe the best investment of time, money, and manpower is to try and turn the border into Berlinkorea, with armed guards stationed along its entire 2,000 mile length?
 
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AnOminous

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It's also not very effective, given the number of North Koreans who manage to escape the country for the relative freedom and plenty of South Korea.

What's more effective is the fact they punish three generations of your entire family if you defect, often by sending them to prisons where you're unlikely to live very long. Also, they have a caste system where you're either privileged (barring a fall from grace), where you are allowed to eat, and where you basically just fucking die. That's even before you commit a "crime" like not crying hard enough at the funeral of some murderous monster leader who just croaked.

The kind of people who would try to escape are often in that lowest caste and they're too weak to even try to escape.
 
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