World Of Darkness General (VtM, WtO, MtA, etc.) -

[Obreon]

Ok, I read the Thing:

Vicissitude is now Protean + Dominate- Tzimisce's clan disciplines are Protean, Dominate and Animalism

Chimerstry is now Obfuscate + Presence- Ravnos now have Obfuscate, Animalism and Presence. Their connectios to the romma are not very emphasized. I don't even remember it being mentioned.

Obeah is kind of odd: Auspex + Dominate. We also get Valeren, which is Fortitude + Dominate. Salubri's clan disciplines are Auspex, Dominate and Fortitude.

 

[Snekposter]

I know that those breed books were retarded, but it is pretty much stated that Barney the dinosaur makes part of the Seventh Generation, and that he is a Mokolé.

Just wanted to say that because it is... kind of funny, although too goofy for WoD. I can see what they were going for tho; the concept is pretty creepy if you are still reading creepypastas and SCP fundation's articles.

Regarding the War in the Amazon: I imagine that as GoW/DmC but also with a lot of psychedelic visuals, as if you were having the most insane trip of your life. We are talking Ayahuasca or something like that... at least that's how I imagine the spirit world in the Amazonas.

So, basically Far Cry 3? Sounds pretty sweet to me.

 

[knightlautrec]

So I've been playing WtA for a few months now and I've gotta say, I'm fairly impressed with the nuance of the social part of the game. Like, sure, when you do missions you are an unstoppable killing machine which is part of it but the social maneuvering is actually a bit more complex than VtM and by design. When you're all killing machines you have to be polite and respectful to stop potential frenzy.

The same with vampires on a smaller scale but vampire's are less prone to it and to be fair, if you rightfully kill your enemy because they were being a disrespectful dickhead to you, nobody is going to give a shit unless it directly affects them. As a Garou you're not exactly supposed to be killing your 'gaia siblings' because they looked at you funny. Beat their ass for it? Sure but not murder.

I'm enjoying it on the whole. I can see the appeal beyond just the murder machine aspects.

 

[Corn Flakes]

So I've been playing WtA for a few months now and I've gotta say, I'm fairly impressed with the nuance of the social part of the game. Like, sure, when you do missions you are an unstoppable killing machine which is part of it but the social maneuvering is actually a bit more complex than VtM and by design. When you're all killing machines you have to be polite and respectful to stop potential frenzy.

The same with vampires on a smaller scale but vampire's are less prone to it and to be fair, if you rightfully kill your enemy because they were being a disrespectful dickhead to you, nobody is going to give a shit unless it directly affects them. As a Garou you're not exactly supposed to be killing your 'gaia siblings' because they looked at you funny. Beat their ass for it? Sure but not murder.

I'm enjoying it on the whole. I can see the appeal beyond just the murder machine aspects.

The really fun part when I played was watching the pack's Ahrouns, who thought the game was 100% rip-and-tear and built their characters accordingly, bumbling around completely out of their depth when it came to dealing with spirits. Yes, you're a 12-foot tall killing machine that can end the existence of entire coteries of vampires in five turns... but that spirit of secrets you must appease to get the vital information you need is not going to be impressed by your 18 damage dice per turn.

Much like you could play VtM as either "personal horror" or "X-Men by night", WtA was more versatile than people gave it credit for. In a short, 5-session chronicle I participated in we only had the player characters going into crinos three times, and one of these times was just someone wolfing out to push a car off a pier and into the water (long story). You can pack a lot of dialogue, investigation and intrigue into a short period of time when every character you meet is a potential existential threat.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Ok, I read the Thing:

Vicissitude is now protean + dominate- Tzimisce's clan disciplines are Protean, Dominate and Animalism

Chimerstry is now Obfuscate + Presence- Ravnos now have Obfuscate, Animalism. They swept their connections with the roma under the rug.

Obeah is kind of odd: Auspex + Dominate. We also get Valeren, which is Fortitude + Dominate. Salubri's clan disciplines are uspex, Dominate and Fortitude.

Yeah, this is real issue, it sort of made sense to fuse serpantis and protean as they're very much the same sort of power coming from a differant angle but Obeah and Chimerstry being fused into common disciplines is as dumb as when they merged thaumaturgy and quietus and obtenerbration with necromancy-disciplines which have very little or nothing in common respectively.
In their attempts to simplify they're creating further complexity while denying play options, clan Heceta is a total mess and . I'm dreading what they're going to do with the spheres and gifts if they do werewolf and mage
I suspect they'll merge etherites with VA's and etherites with Verbenna with dreamspeakers which would be fine if it wasnt for 20 years of fluff establishing the groups as distinct They'll also probably go with the revised pc names which is a very 'disney' move.

 

[knightlautrec]

The really fun part when I played was watching the pack's Ahrouns, who thought the game was 100% rip-and-tear and built their characters accordingly, bumbling around completely out of their depth when it came to dealing with spirits. Yes, you're a 12-foot tall killing machine that can end the existence of entire coteries of vampires in five turns... but that spirit of secrets you must appease to get the vital information you need is not going to be impressed by your 18 damage dice per turn.

Much like you could play VtM as either "personal horror" or "X-Men by night", WtA was more versatile than people gave it credit for. In a short, 5-session chronicle I participated in we only had the player characters going into crinos three times, and one of these times was just someone wolfing out to push a car off a pier and into the water (long story). You can pack a lot of dialogue, investigation and intrigue into a short period of time when every character you meet is a potential existential threat.

So true. At the moment we play a bit more like spirit detectives than anything with occasional interludes of ending the threats. Honestly, it's been an interesting game.

I understand why people find parts of the game 'distasteful' (or, heaven forbid, 'problematic') but in the context of being a dying race holding on to every scrap of culture, you can understand their rigidity in traditions and trying to actively maintain their population. The emphasis on family is kind of an different one.

Vampire is an inherently selfish me first game. One I like, of course, but there's something to be said for a game where the focus is being a functional cog that stands out and aids their culture and ones who don't? Get the fucking boot. That said, I'm interested by the Spiral and I know, like the Sabbat, weren't originally meant to be played, but there could be some fun found in playing a Gaian driven to dance the spiral and play an evil chronicle.

 

[Corn Flakes]

So true. At the moment we play a bit more like spirit detectives than anything with occasional interludes of ending the threats. Honestly, it's been an interesting game.

I understand why people find parts of the game 'distasteful' (or, heaven forbid, 'problematic') but in the context of being a dying race holding on to every scrap of culture, you can understand their rigidity in traditions and trying to actively maintain their population. The emphasis on family is kind of an different one.

Werewolf is a game where you really need to get into a more "alien" mindset in order to understand the Garou point of view, particularly when dealing with lupus characters. As you said, they're fighting (literally) tooth and claw to stay alive as a breed, there's a much greater emphasis on the ends justifying the means and walking the line between survival and corruption.

Vampire is an inherently selfish me first game. One I like, of course, but there's something to be said for a game where the focus is being a functional cog that stands out and aids their culture and ones who don't? Get the fucking boot.

I was very lucky to have good Vampire GMs. The key to a good Vampire game, assuming you don't just want to let the players sandbox and do whatever (which I personally find boring), is to give the PCs a good motivation to stick together. Usually some greater threat that pushes them into having to work with one another in order to avoid losing their lives or something very important to them (like, say, the Ventrue losing her fortune overnight, or the Malkavian losing their prized ghoul they're obsessed with). Even when one (or more) of the PCs ends up backstabbing the others, if the players had time to banter and interact in-character the plot twists and counterplays can make the betrayal lots of fun to play out.

In one of the chronicles I played, a very long time ago, had this running gag about one of the PCs always plotting to betray everybody eventually. Near the end of the story, that character did attempt to betray the rest of the coterie. A second PC stepped up and countered the betrayal (by way of pointing a shotgun to the traitor's head), to which the traitor replied by putting their own plan B into action... which then was promptly defused by the groups pacifist Nosferatu everybody expected would be the first to die. The consequences of that clusterfuck made the final two sessions really interesting.

That said, I'm interested by the Spiral and I know, like the Sabbat, weren't originally meant to be played, but there could be some fun found in playing a Gaian driven to dance the spiral and play an evil chronicle.

I think I'm in the minority here but I really hate the Sabbat as it turned out to be, and I'm not a fan of "villain" campaigns or chronicles unless the GM really knows what they're doing. Most of those I played turned out to be pretty bland torture/gore porn fodder for edgelords and didn't last past just a couple sessions because everybody was so involved in their own pointless cruelty there wasn't really any interaction between the players. The one really good "antagonists" campaign we had was one where the GM provided a good driving motivation (we were all mid-ranked members of a secretive evil cult) and a good challenge as the authorities actively attempted to find us out. We actually had to plot and scheme and make sure all the pieces were in place before we headed out to kill shit. One of the sessions featured a good two hours of everybody discussing what would be the best way to frame a NPC for a crime we were about to commit, and with everybody in-character it was just a blast.

Going back to the Sabbat specifically... I love the idea behind them. Vampires realizing that they're pawns in a great game and gearing up to try to survive the endgame is a really interesting premise. But the execution was just... no. I adored seeing Sabbat being used as mysterious, insidious agents working for some unseen purpose, and cities controlled by them being deathtraps to any non-Sabbat vamp going by. But then White Wolf decided to show us how the sausage was made, released a bunch of splatbooks, and explained way too much about them. Pre-Revised Sabbat was fucking awful at it, too: the thought of marauding gangs of shovelheads being able to terrorize entire cities for extended periods of time without any sort of repercussion, while every other Vampire sect had to deal with the consequences of their actions drawing mortal (or worse, Technocratic) attention to the existence of Cainites just strained credulity way too hard for me.

Sure, it got a lot better in later editions but by then I was already tired of them. The players in my area who wanted to play Sabbat characters were almost universally annoying little shits who kept whining whenever their stupidity swung back and hit them in the face (usually in the form of hunters or Men in Black). When I did play Sabbat with people who were interested in a good story, I realized that playing Sabbat was basically playing Vampirewolf the Apocalypse. Yes, there was a lot of social nuance to differentiate them from Werewolves, but if I wanted to play characters who are constrained by a hierarchy and fanatically loyal to their "packs" I'd much rather play the guys who can wolf out and don't need sunscreen. Add to that the bucket of edgy BS that were the antitribu (talk about a stupid term, too) clans, and I just couldn't take them seriously.

If there was one thing I liked about Requiem it was that the Seven were a clear reference back to the original concept of the Sabbat, they weren't described in excruciating detail, and they were much more interesting villains for it.

 

[Obreon]

Yeah, this is real issue, it sort of made sense to fuse serpantis and protean as they're very much the same sort of power coming from a differant angle but Obeah and Chimerstry being fused into common disciplines is as dumb as when they merged thaumaturgy and quietus and obtenerbration with necromancy-disciplines which have very little or nothing in common respectively.
In their attempts to simplify they're creating further complexity while denying play options, clan Heceta is a total mess and . I'm dreading what they're going to do with the spheres and gifts if they do werewolf and mage
I suspect they'll merge etherites with VA's and etherites with Verbenna with dreamspeakers which would be fine if it wasnt for 20 years of fluff establishing the groups as distinct They'll also probably go with the revised pc names which is a very 'disney' move.

It is also heavily implied that the shitshow in India during the week of nightmares actually happened; I don't like that. I can't believe that it was SchreckNet being compromised what made the major power aware of vampires and not the death of an antediluvian.

It is also stated, in a very explicit way, that Salubri are to be used only as NPCs and for very specific reasons -this is a good, I believe-. Their bane is kind of overkill tho: they are pursued not just because of their reputation but their bane: other kindred feel compelled to attack them, and their blood is particularly irresistible.

 

[Pentex]

Just gonna drop this drama from the OPP forum right here...

Dissent will not be fucking tolerated.

https://archive.md/eShoa

https://archive.vn/f3qcu

 

[Tactical Wizard]

Their bane is kind of overkill tho: they are pursued not just because of their reputation but their bane: other kindred feel compelled to attack them, and their blood is particularly taste for other vampires.

Okay, that’s just fucking hackery of the highest order right there.

 

[Emperor Julian]

It is also heavily implied that the shitshow in India during the week of nightmares actually happened; I don't like that. I can't believe that it was SchreckNet being compromised what made the major power aware of vampires and not the death of an antediluvian.

It is also stated, in a very explicit way, that Salubri are to be used only as NPCs and for very specific reasons -this is a good, I believe-. Their bane is kind of overkill tho: they are pursued not just because of their reputation but their bane: other kindred feel compelled to attack them, and their blood is particularly taste for other vampires.

Ehhhh that's metaplot and can be written off, countering bad mechanics means I have to design my own, If I want to run 5th ed with previously established setting and characters I effectively have to re-write Valerian and chimeristry then untangle and expand the blood magics, ignore or modify the banes and re build the path systems from scratch. While trying to keep it relatively balanced

5th edition-why play 20th when you can play with half the tools you need, a shit load more clunky mechanics and fucking cosplay photo's?

I'm still trying to figure why they tried to re-invent the wheel in 5th. So far the only positive is the return of my Vampire wifu.

 

[Obreon]

I suspect they'll merge etherites with VA's and etherites

I don't know a lot about Mage, but that would suck. Those traditions have a lot in common but not enough to be considered the same.

I mean: both traditions are heavily influenced by Paul Feyerabend's work -etherites more than VAs- but they represent different attitudes towards reality. Their philosophies are simplified versions of heterodox perspectives on science in two different periods, which make them incompatible.

As I said: etherites feel like an overdose of Feyerabend's redpills. VA's, on the other hand, feel more like the CCRU. I love both in their own way, and would like to keep them separate.

They might try and say that etherites evolved into VA's, which would also suck.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Merging Etherites and VAs would be one of the stupidest moves ever. You have one tradition being extremely heavily focused on material, objective things, and one tradition extremely heavily focused on immaterial, subjective concepts. Yes, they're both technological in their methods but that's as far as they're connected because even their technology works in different ways. An Etherite wouldn't understand a VA's magic any more than they would a Hermetic's magic and vice-versa.

But since it would be one of the stupidest moves ever, that's clearly what's going to happen.

 

[Pentex]

Merging Etherites and VAs would be one of the stupidest moves ever. You have one tradition being extremely heavily focused on material, objective things, and one tradition extremely heavily focused on immaterial, subjective concepts. Yes, they're both technological in their methods but that's as far as they're connected because even their technology works in different ways. An Etherite wouldn't understand a VA's magic any more than they would a Hermetic's magic and vice-versa.

But since it would be one of the stupidest moves ever, that's clearly what's going to happen.

You had people defending the Avatar Storm as 'bringing Mage back to street level' (sort of like people did with V5 and 'The Beckoning'). It's not a stretch for the Swedish smooth brains to think that the pulp mad scientists tradition and the cyberpunk 1337 reality haxxorz tradition are the same thing.

They might even write the Technocracy as the unironic good guys in Mage (despite them obviously crushing the souls of humanity beneath the iron shod boot of Banality/Clarity) who are unwittingly working against Mass Awakening.

 

[Tactical Wizard]

You had people defending the Avatar Storm as 'bringing Mage back to street level' (sort of like people did with V5 and 'The Beckoning'). It's not a stretch for the Swedish smooth brains to think that the pulp mad scientists tradition and the cyberpunk 1337 reality haxxorz tradition are the same thing.

They might even write the Technocracy as the unironic good guys in Mage (despite them obviously crushing the souls of humanity beneath the iron shod boot of Banality/Clarity) and working against Mass Awakening.

Fuck man, they did that with The Beckoning in V5. It was a shit show when they did it with Mage and it’s a shit show now.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Merging Etherites and VAs would be one of the stupidest moves ever. .

Dumber than merging Cappadocians, Harbingers, Samedi, Giovanni and Naraja, into a single clan while grafting obtenerbration and necromancy together and giving them all the same clan flaw despite Naraja explicitally not being descended from ashur?

You had people defending the Avatar Storm as 'bringing Mage back to street level' (sort of like people did with V5 and 'The Beckoning'). It's not a stretch for the Swedish smooth brains to think that the pulp mad scientists tradition and the cyberpunk 1337 reality haxxorz tradition are the same thing.

They might even write the Technocracy as the unironic good guys in Mage (despite them obviously crushing the souls of humanity beneath the iron shod boot of Banality/Clarity) who are unwittingly working against Mass Awakening.

I kind of liked the Avatar storm and the more 'street' approach, the problem isnt that they try to do a street approach. It's the insistance that it's the 'correct' way to play. Simular to 2nd/3rd vtms faggy dance of the immortals or 5ths street approach.
If they make the union nicer they'll make them post humanistic in the way the brainlets on resetera wanted cyberpunk 2077 something like xenofeminism or some other dumb pretencious shit.

 

[Pentex]

I kind of liked the Avatar storm and the more 'street' approach, the problem isnt that they try to do a street approach. It's the insistance that it's the 'correct' way to play. Simular to 2nd/3rd vtms faggy dance of the immortals or 5ths street approach.
If they make the union nicer they'll make them post humanistic in the way the brainlets on resetera wanted cyberpunk 2077 something like xenofeminism or some other dumb pretencious shit.

Nah, since all of the 'good intentions' factions are dodging asskickings and idiot balls from previous editions, might as well bring back the Craftmasons, the Ahl-i-Batin for 'diversity', have them both join the Hollow Ones, and make the new group the Anarchs of Mage. "Fuck mommy Traditions and daddy Technocracy! We don't play by either of your rules, MAAAAANNNNN!!!!!" Then the Techies somehow get nerfed to explain why the organization that has protocols and resources to destroy large chunks of the planet in case shit goes completely sideways, doesn't lay a god-tier smackdown on these plucky young rebels.

Also, apparently, THIS is Clan Tzimisce now:

I can't tell if if this the product of LARPers, coomers, or both.

 

[Snekposter]

Jesus Christ, what an abomination! Oh, and that's a really ugly Tzimsice or something. Talk about lame if an androgynous thing in a tight corset is the best that Clan can do these days.

 

[Emperor Julian]

On one hand it's nice to see Tzmisce art which isnt gribbly tentacles and a big pile of gore on the other hand I'm really begining to hate the 2020 vogue lineup style they keep using.

White wolf art has never been top tier but they've really gone to shit with this edition.

 

[Snekposter]

Are those vampires or hobos or what? Jesus, talk about ugly and mis-matched.