World of Warcraft: We Wuz Pirates An Sheit -

Jeb-sama

The clapping will be mandatory
kiwifarms.net
Classic but it will taper down to probably 50k hardcore autists over a year and shrink after that when there's no new content to encourage them to log on
The most trusted private server (nost) had somewhere between 100k-150k active players 1 year after its launch, and showed no sign of slowing before it was lawyer'd into the grave. I'm not sure why people think classic will be some short lived thing. People have been obsessively playing private servers for a decade now, and they only have more reason to play now that there's no risk of their characters being destroyed by server takedowns.

The average pleb is going to spend 2-6 months just getting to 60. There will be no shortage of things to ever do, especially if you want alts. This isn't retail.
 

Medicated

Not the fun kind
kiwifarms.net
The most trusted private server (nost) had somewhere between 100k-150k active players 1 year after its launch, and showed no sign of slowing before it was lawyer'd into the grave. I'm not sure why people think classic will be some short lived thing. People have been obsessively playing private servers for a decade now, and they only have more reason to play now that there's no risk of their characters being destroyed by server takedowns.
Aren't private servers free? Why would people pay for what they were already doing, with a team of people that actually listen to them?
 

Jeb-sama

The clapping will be mandatory
kiwifarms.net
Aren't private servers free? Why would people pay for what they were already doing, with a team of people that actually listen to them?
Private servers are free, but it comes at a price

1. servers usually aren't very stable. DCs and rollbacks happen every now and then
2. almost always based somewhere in Europe, so ping is ASS
3. servers deletions happen, so you can lose your hard earned characters at any point
4. a lot have p2w aspects (eg warmane sells pretty much everything from gear to instant max levels)
5. there's usually big competition between private servers, and it's not uncommon for a massive section of your server population to simply leave forever because fagbois™ new and improved server was just released, and everyone wants to go play there now

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Official servers should solve all of that
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Exterminatus

Medicated

Not the fun kind
kiwifarms.net
Private servers are free, but it comes at a price

1. servers usually aren't very stable. DCs and rollbacks happen every now and then
2. almost always based somewhere in Europe, so ping is ASS
3. servers deletions happen, so you can lose your hard earned characters at any point
4. a lot have p2w aspects (eg warmane sells pretty much everything from gear to instant max levels)
5. there's usually big competition between private servers, and it's not uncommon for a massive section of your server population to simply leave forever because fagbois™ new and improved server was just released, and everyone wants to go play there now

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Official servers should solve all of that
Do the private servers run the legacy code? Or are they doing what Blizzard is planning and retooling their current engine to simulate classic? The question I'm asking really, is how many people that may be interested in classic are "purists", and would not play if something was "balanced" by blizzard after the fact? For example rogue sinister strike damage not tied to weapon damage?
 

Smug Chuckler

Rape Joke Man
kiwifarms.net
Modern private servers are running on nostalrius' code that got released a while ago.

I don't give a fuck about classic because "been there done that" and the gameplay of spamming only 3-4 abilities and the grinding slow nature of killing mobs 1 by 1 and resting is too archaic for me. But hopefully classic is successful enough for retail to re-adopt mechanics that they removed over the years like the talent trees.
 

Jeb-sama

The clapping will be mandatory
kiwifarms.net
Do the private servers run the legacy code? Or are they doing what Blizzard is planning and retooling their current engine to simulate classic? The question I'm asking really, is how many people that may be interested in classic are "purists", and would not play if something was "balanced" by blizzard after the fact? For example rogue sinister strike damage not tied to weapon damage?
It runs on the old code, but a lot of the old values are missing (such as those for npc damage and item stats), which private server devs simply had to guess for. Many of them also changed features to accommodate larger population sizes, like making NPCs spawn faster. In that sense, private servers were never truly "real vanilla" either.

There's a few ultra purists out there that will cry no matter what (Alexensual is a great example, as he is hitting levels of manbaby not thought possible). The overwhelming majority don't give a fuck about small changes though, and will play official servers because of the points I mentioned in the last post
 

The Vinyl Solution

adolph hipster was already taken
kiwifarms.net
I'd be more excited if blizz fucked off with titan forging and worked on fixing retail's problems.
I dunno. I think retail has become so watered down gameplay wise, and completely convoluted lore wise that it might just be better to have BFA be the end of retail and for classic to continue on a sort of alternate dimension course of events where the game gets better with subsequent expansions. Either way, all the organic hype around Classic should be a wake up call to blizzard that they've been getting it wrong for 7-8 years and the guy that said "You think you do, but you don't" should be fired.
 
Last edited:

Zan

kiwifarms.net
I dunno. I think retail has become so watered down gameplay wise, and completely convoluted lore wise that it might just be better to have BFA be the end of retail and for classic to continue on a sort of alternate dimension course of events where the game gets better with subsequent expansions. Either way, all the organic hype around Classic should be a wake up call to blizzard that they've been getting it wrong for 7-8 years and the guy that said "You think you do, but you don't" should be fired.
This is my dream scenario but blizzard's heads are up their asses so far and they love everything about retail. After all, the people who complain are just a vocal minority. If blizz did go with the plan you mentioned I just wish they would find a way around the inevitable power creep.
 
  • DRINK!
Reactions: The Vinyl Solution

Mathas

Fiend Seeker
kiwifarms.net
Aren't private servers free? Why would people pay for what they were already doing, with a team of people that actually listen to them?
One, because private servers aren't exactly accurate. The only thing I can compare it to is emulation, but it's worse because the code itself is imperfect. Close, but not quite there.
Two, because most of the currently popular private servers are shutting down when Classic releases to avoid lawsuits (and because "Real classic WoW is all we've ever wanted").
So your choices are really only between likely poorly-run servers that will probably end up getting hit with a C&D, or Classic™ .
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Exterminatus

Haramburger

kiwifarms.net
I dunno. I think retail has become so watered down gameplay wise, and completely convoluted lore wise that it might just be better to have BFA be the end of retail and for classic to continue on a sort of alternate dimension course of events where the game gets better with subsequent expansions. Either way, all the organic hype around Classic should be a wake up call to blizzard that they've been getting it wrong for 7-8 years and the guy that said "You think you do, but you don't" should be fired.
It has its moments; some of the best quest writing and design has been the actual unlocking of Kul Tiran and Zandalari as Allied Races(not the loremaster part or rep grinding; I mean getting the ship built as a gift to Anduin for Alliance and observing Talanji's trials under the loa for Horde) and I have to give props for the creative goals, gameplay, voice acting, and overall fun where it's due. I just wish the rest of the game was as good. Legion really spoiled us.
 

Sho'nuff

Choppin' your pizzeria.
kiwifarms.net
The most trusted private server (nost) had somewhere between 100k-150k active players 1 year after its launch, and showed no sign of slowing before it was lawyer'd into the grave. I'm not sure why people think classic will be some short lived thing. People have been obsessively playing private servers for a decade now, and they only have more reason to play now that there's no risk of their characters being destroyed by server takedowns.

The average pleb is going to spend 2-6 months just getting to 60. There will be no shortage of things to ever do, especially if you want alts. This isn't retail.
Those nost numbers have been debunked a couple of times, from multiple angles, active meant signed on in the past 6 months, and it wasn't a unique ID count, it was by account, which you could have multiple.

Nost was a healthy server, but if there were 200k players spread among all the private servers, I would be surprised.

Also, we really need to take into consideration it was free, people already complaining about paying for classic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Exterminatus

Tanner Glass

kiwifarms.net
Those nost numbers have been debunked a couple of times, from multiple angles, active meant signed on in the past 6 months, and it wasn't a unique ID count, it was by account, which you could have multiple.

Nost was a healthy server, but if there were 200k players spread among all the private servers, I would be surprised.

Also, we really need to take into consideration it was free, people already complaining about paying for classic.
That's fair, but you would also have to also account for people who would like to play a "Classic" server but weren't willing to for any reason touch a "private classic" server (security issues, longevitiy issues, legal issues, knowledge issues).

There are likely more people interested in classic than ever bothered to get into the private server scene.
 

Sho'nuff

Choppin' your pizzeria.
kiwifarms.net
That's fair, but you would also have to also account for people who would like to play a "Classic" server but weren't willing to for any reason touch a "private classic" server (security issues, longevitiy issues, legal issues, knowledge issues).

There are likely more people interested in classic than ever bothered to get into the private server scene.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not putting down Classic or doubting it won't be successful. But I think we need to be realistic about a player base, and what successful means. There are reasons why Classic didn't come out years ago, and I really believe the "You think you do, but you don't" statement is born out of research and not just a hand wave.

If you would have asked me about 6 months ago, I would have said 100k-250k after the initial rush. This is world wide. After seeing some gameplay and seeing people's reactions to it, plus estimating from my own guild, I think 200k-400k with be the post rush numbers. And that's not really putting the game down, the target audience of Classic is the current active subscribers. And I believe we are looking at 1m ish from US and UK, and another 2m from Asia. I doubt Asia will be big on Classic, I'm not entire unconvinced that their servers aren't just gold sellers selling to other gold sellers.

I think the biggest player base is going to be the "Cata babies" and forward who are still subbed. The people that this content is new to will be the biggest base in the game. A smaller portion 50k-75k is going to be the private server players. Outside of Nost and a few other projects, most PS are fucked versions of vanilla. And I'm pretty sure Nost was a fucked version of vanilla as well because there were a few too many viable builds.
We already know that a good many of those players, plus the Vanilla is harder crowd, that are swallowing a good hard pill about dungeon difficulty right now.

I think the other little bit of population is going to be made up of people like me, I played in classic, I remember the game, and I like that style of game. I like the slower pace and the more RPGness to it. I think that the "Classic is new to me" crowd will either really enjoy it and stick it out, or will stay with retail.

But there will be no in rush of old players who quit the game coming back. Your old raid leader has a job and a miserable wife, 2 mortgages, and a dog that shits in the living room after eating left overs, the players, the regular folks who just played WoW because it was the coolest thing since flipping their pillow over aren't coming back.
 

Mathas

Fiend Seeker
kiwifarms.net
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not putting down Classic or doubting it won't be successful. But I think we need to be realistic about a player base, and what successful means. There are reasons why Classic didn't come out years ago, and I really believe the "You think you do, but you don't" statement is born out of research and not just a hand wave.

If you would have asked me about 6 months ago, I would have said 100k-250k after the initial rush. This is world wide. After seeing some gameplay and seeing people's reactions to it, plus estimating from my own guild, I think 200k-400k with be the post rush numbers. And that's not really putting the game down, the target audience of Classic is the current active subscribers. And I believe we are looking at 1m ish from US and UK, and another 2m from Asia. I doubt Asia will be big on Classic, I'm not entire unconvinced that their servers aren't just gold sellers selling to other gold sellers.

I think the biggest player base is going to be the "Cata babies" and forward who are still subbed. The people that this content is new to will be the biggest base in the game. A smaller portion 50k-75k is going to be the private server players. Outside of Nost and a few other projects, most PS are fucked versions of vanilla. And I'm pretty sure Nost was a fucked version of vanilla as well because there were a few too many viable builds.
We already know that a good many of those players, plus the Vanilla is harder crowd, that are swallowing a good hard pill about dungeon difficulty right now.

I think the other little bit of population is going to be made up of people like me, I played in classic, I remember the game, and I like that style of game. I like the slower pace and the more RPGness to it. I think that the "Classic is new to me" crowd will either really enjoy it and stick it out, or will stay with retail.

But there will be no in rush of old players who quit the game coming back. Your old raid leader has a job and a miserable wife, 2 mortgages, and a dog that shits in the living room after eating left overs, the players, the regular folks who just played WoW because it was the coolest thing since flipping their pillow over aren't coming back.
Wholly disagree that the majority will be current players. For all their similarities, the games are drastically different. I think Classic appeals to a completely different type of player than retail currently does. It hasn't always been that way, and it doesn't always have to be that way... But at the moment? Yeah.

As far as their reasoning goes, I feel like Blizz has gotten a bit too greedy, and has been out of touch with their audience for a while now. I think their "you think you do, but you don't" statement was born out of being totally disconnected from their playerbase. I don't think I really need a specific example here (just look around you), but BfA itself is an easy one to point to. I could argue that they don't even know what their current playerbase wants, let alone what the players they've lost along the way wanted.

So I kinda feel you've got things backwards. The majority of the people I know (both online and irl) who are excited about classic are people who have long since quit WoW. The "regular people" who played WoW are the people I think Classic will probably bring back. So that's who I think the majority of the playerbase will be. At least for a while...

The real question I have isn't "how many players will Classic bring". I honestly think it'll overshadow retail for a time. My real question is "how long will it last"? Classic is a finite game. Eventually the game will run it's course, and what then?
 
Last edited:

Stab You in the Back

kiwifarms.net
The guild I run with is mostly normies and old women. They love spending all day farming resources, but they can't handle modern raiding. Modern raid bosses just have too many mechanics and put too much responsibility on each player. Our first 45 wipes on Gh'uun were them learning how to pass the balls to one another. Heck, I'll never forget the night when I had to spend 20 minutes in discord explaining a single mechanic on a normal mode boss to my raid group because it was so unintuitive that nobody had any idea that they were doing something wrong.

Classic is tailor made for these kinds of players. They can spend all day farming and then at night, jump into a raid where their only responsibility as a DPS is to stand still, shoot the boss, and let the tanks do all the positioning work.
 

Cactus Wings

Coughing for Cash
kiwifarms.net
Classic is tailor made for these kinds of players. They can spend all day farming and then at night, jump into a raid where their only responsibility as a DPS is to stand still, shoot the boss, and let the tanks do all the positioning work.
But that's the thing. What kind of normie would go "Oh, a 15 year old game? That sounds exciting; all my favorite QoL changes removed and having to spend 6 hours a day for 4 months to hit max level to be told my class/spec isn't desired". Those people made up the social 'Facebook' clutter of Vanilla, and it's what is gonna be lacking. Classic is gonna be nothing but hardcore elitists who've waited years just to have a chance to go "I was here from the beginning", while their investment is gonna rival that of retail: Google a guide, follow it.

Streamers are really doing Classic a disservice. Their adult job is to play games, so they play games with people who share their occupation; easily making 5-man parties for dungeons with their streamer benefits etc. Now imagine each of their 50k viewers playing Classic on their own with no friends, as I once more theorize, that no normie is gonna stay with this game, let alone for the social aspect. They're gonna log on, hit lv 30 after tens of hours, then log out realizing that it's more or less the same WoW experience except you need to spend an hour in /1 instead of clicking LFD for a dungeon.

The absolute only appeal Classic has over private servers is the fact it's "official". No effort will ever be wasted, yet none of it will be rewarded either. Everyone is gonna have all the exclusive vanilla epics. Everyone is gonna clear raids because they're used to min-maxing; something not 1/10 of vanilla players did. It'll be power creeped as fuck, which I guess is good since a majority never tried endgame content in vanilla.

Regardless, it's another Blizzard title. It'll end up irrelevant within a year, and only truly be played by autists. Think back to all those 'single mom plays WoW with her son!' articles, and what they valued. Ease of access for a non-gamer, easy content, socializing. None of those applies to Vanilla. At the very 'worst', Classic is gonna be downtime between actual content in WoW, at least once BfA is gone and they hopefully put out a better expansion.

I generally don't give a shit about Classic anymore, but it'll be great to see the die-hards whine a year from now about "B-but can you give us TBC?", underlining that it's not an issue of Vanilla being the best state of WoW, but that it's a bunch of babies who never actually played Vanilla who just wanted to be part of it, as they probably spent their days playing LoL instead.
 

Just Some Other Guy

kiwifarms.net
That's really the thing, if you never played classic I don't see you enjoying it. I'm a sick fuck who plays a pserver because I actually miss being OOM after 2 fireballs, or my warrior getting ganked by 2 murlocs. Spending an hour+ clearing low lvl dungeons because there's a potential wipe with every pull.

I don't see a single person who's only played newer iterations doing that and thinking "yeah, this is fun!". No, it'll just be frustrating. Even with all of that, a pserver will never feel like Classic because it was a 1 time thing. Everybody min-maxes and goes tryhard. There's no fumbling around and learning things because it's all been done for ages.

So anybody thinking that since this is Blizzard doing it that it's gonna capture the "feel" of classic is mistaken. It's gonna be a mix of people who actually enjoy playing classic, and people who have only heard all of these legends of classic thinking they're gonna get to experience them. Who knows how many of the former there are, and the latter will nope the fuck out once they realize that lightning won't be captured again.
 

Stab You in the Back

kiwifarms.net
I think you are vastly underestimating the number of long-term habitual players who feel alienated by the difficulty and pace of current WoW and just want to log in 2 hours a day after work, talk with their guildies on discord and fish.
 

Just Some Other Guy

kiwifarms.net
I think you are vastly underestimating the number of long-term habitual players who feel alienated by the difficulty and pace of current WoW and just want to log in 2 hours a day after work, talk with their guildies on discord and fish.
Why would they need classic to do that? Playing current WoW is easier unless you're trying to do M++++++++(insert number of + here).
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Exterminatus
Tags
None

About Us

The Kiwi Farms is about eccentric individuals and communities on the Internet. We call them lolcows because they can be milked for amusement or laughs. Our community is bizarrely diverse and spectators are encouraged to join the discussion.

We do not place intrusive ads, host malware, sell data, or run crypto miners with your browser. If you experience these things, you have a virus. If your malware system says otherwise, it is faulty.

Supporting the Forum

How to Help

The Kiwi Farms is constantly attacked by insane people and very expensive to run. It would not be here without community support.

BTC: 1DgS5RfHw7xA82Yxa5BtgZL65ngwSk6bmm
ETH: 0xc1071c60Ae27C8CC3c834E11289205f8F9C78CA5
BAT: 0xc1071c60Ae27C8CC3c834E11289205f8F9C78CA5
LTC: LSZsFCLUreXAZ9oyc9JRUiRwbhkLCsFi4q
XMR: 438fUMciiahbYemDyww6afT1atgqK3tSTX25SEmYknpmenTR6wvXDMeco1ThX2E8gBQgm9eKd1KAtEQvKzNMFrmjJJpiino