Would the world be a better place if the Germans had won World War I?

[Y2K Baby]

Third Teddy tenure would be the most based timeline.

Lol, fascist scum.

 

[Red Guy]

That sets a very dangerous precedent when your empire is already coming apart at the seams, and was absolutely an untenable position for A-H to take.

It tells anyone who might think about agitating for their own ethnic group to get its own state (of which there were many in A-H including the Hungarians):

1. Violence is an acceptable tool to accomplish your political ends
2. There will be no consequences for killing one of our heads of state

The Austro-Hungarians had to take an aggressive stance, otherwise it would compromise their status as a great European power, and because it would potentially expose them to further nationalistic violence.

I'm saying that the Austro-Hungarians should have allowed Bosnia independence well before the assassination of Ferdinand, as that was the political motivation to kill him. If they had given them independence, they probably would have stayed allies, as they were being targeted by Serbia.

 

[Red Guy]

I'm saying that the Austro-Hungarians should have allowed Bosnia independence well before the assassination of Ferdinand, as the political motivation to kill him was because of the outright refusal of allowing them to be their own country. If they had given them independence, they probably would have stayed allies, as they were being targeted by Serbia.

 

[Kamov Ka-52]

I'm saying that the Austro-Hungarians should have allowed Bosnia independence well before the assassination of Ferdinand, as that was the political motivation to kill him. If they had given them independence, they probably would have stayed allies, as they were being targeted by Serbia.

It's still really bad optics though, if you let one part of your empire go because some Slavs are REEEEEEEEEEEEEE-ing about independence, well it makes it a whole lot more appealing for another ethno-national group to start REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-ing, and before you know it your empire is balkanized and dead.

 

[verissimus]

Germany's biggest mistake was allying with Austria-Hungary over Russia.

 

[Marco Fucko]

Thinking that if WWI had a different "winner" the world would be a better place today is the ultimate

 

[Kamov Ka-52]

Thinking that if WWI had a different "winner" the world would be a better place today is the ultimate

In hindsight I think the better question would be how would the world be different, but that doesn't have the same clickbait-y ring to it.

 

[verissimus]

Thinking that if WWI had a different "winner" the world would be a better place today is the ultimate

Tch, if you think that's bad you should have heard Ben Shapiro's completely exceptional take on how everything would have been so much better if the US had went all out in their intervention in the Russian Civil War.

 

[OB 946]

After hearing people meme about how the wrong side won WWII for years, it finally got me wondering; assuming the war was an inevitability, how would the world be different if the Belgians didn't resist the Germans at the outset of the war? What if Von Schlieffen's Plan had been successful in crushing the French military before they could mobilize and forced the French and British to sue for peace?

I'd argue yes for several reasons:

• It would have prevented the appalling casualties incurred by both sides on the Western Front
• Britain and France wouldn't have over-expanded their colonial holdings by tearing apart the Ottoman Empire
• The Soviet Union is never formed and, arguably, no major world governments end up Communist
• Continental Europe would have a clearly dominant power, which would help to ensure stability
• The British and French don't have the opportunity to completely cock up the Middle East's borders
• The Japanese are not emboldened to continue seizing Chinese territories beyond the ones they grabbed from the Germans
• The peace terms would almost certainly be less harsh due to the shorter duration of the conflict
• You don't end up with the Treaty of Versailles, which guarantees a Second World War
• Israel doesn't exist because the British and French don't promise Palestine to (((them)))

Thoughts?

Communists would've seized power in France and fascists in the UK in the postwar depression. Nothing would've changed. WW2 was inevitable.

 

[ColtWalker1847]

Plus the Germans knew that it would be near impossible for them to beat the Royal Navy.

No they didn't. There are diplomatic cables back and forth for decades from the British to the Germans begging them to stop trying to have fleet parity. They have the responses from the Kaiser too. It goes something like:

UK: Hey, whatcha doing over there?
Ger: Building ships.
UK: Cool. Don't try to build as many as me k.
Ger: Whatever. You don't own the seas. I'll build as many as I want.
UK: Ok, suit yourself but just know that for every ship you build I'll build 2.
Ger: Stop it no. You can't do that.
UK: "I'll build as many as I want", right?
Ger: Whatever I'll build my fleet.
UK: For what exactly? Who you planning to fight? You already outmatched the French and the Russians? And what would you be fighting for anyways?
Ger: HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE DESTINY OF OUR GREAT COUNTRY ENGLISH SWINE
UK: Ok then. gets France on the phone

The naval building programs and blatant antagonism is what pushed Britain into the Entente. Why do you think they protected Belgium anyways? Out of the kindness of their hearts? Or to prevent Germans from having more fleet anchorages and shipyards?

Even if Belgium acquiesced and became doormats the British would still get involved because they wanted Belgium neutral and out of the German sphere because that was a direct threat to them. Seriously read Massie's book I mentioned earlier. It's not really about ships it's an extremely thorough examination of European diplomacy from the mid-1800's to WWI.

 

[Stoneheart]

The whole war never should have happened honestly. The Triple Alliance ( Germany, Italy, and Austria-Hungary) and the Triple Entente (Russia, France, and Britain) were formed to pressure the other side in not causing a war in the first place.

everything needed to say about that concept

 

[verissimus]

@ColtWalker1847 did you read Massie's follow up book? I'm thinking of getting it.

 

[OB 946]

No they didn't. There are diplomatic cables back and forth for decades from the British to the Germans begging them to stop trying to have fleet parity. They have the responses from the Kaiser too. It goes something like:

UK: Hey, whatcha doing over there?
Ger: Building ships.
UK: Cool. Don't try to build as many as me k.
Ger: Whatever. You don't own the seas. I'll build as many as I want.
UK: Ok, suit yourself but just know that for every ship you build I'll build 2.
Ger: Stop it no. You can't do that.
UK: "I'll build as many as I want", right?
Ger: Whatever I'll build my fleet.
UK: For what exactly? Who you planning to fight? You already outmatched the French and the Russians? And what would you be fighting for anyways?
Ger: HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE DESTINY OF OUR GREAT COUNTRY ENGLISH SWINE
UK: Ok then. gets France on the phone

The naval building programs and blatant antagonism is what pushed Britain into the Entente. Why do you think they protected Belgium anyways? Out of the kindness of their hearts? Or to prevent Germans from having more fleet anchorages and shipyards?

Even if Belgium acquiesced and became doormats the British would still get involved because they wanted Belgium neutral and out of the German sphere because that was a direct threat to them. Seriously read Massie's book I mentioned earlier. It's not really about ships it's an extremely thorough examination of European diplomacy from the mid-1800's to WWI.

Incorrect about your navy shit. The reason they wanted Germany to stop building ships was so France wouldn't jump them. The Royal Navy was operating under the Two Powers rule, which stated that their navy must be larger in tonnage than the next two largest navies combined, which at the time meant they had to have a navy larger than France and Russia combined. Germany didn't even chart. They were worried of having to divert battleships from containing France to kill the German fleet. Germany was never a credible naval threat, at all.

 

[Kamov Ka-52]

-snip-

If they thought they could beat the Royal Navy in a straight fight why would they use their navy primarily in a commerce raiding role? The Royal Navy's Grand Fleet tonnage dwarfed the size of the entire Imperial German Navy, the lion's share of which were obsolete pre-dreadnoughts. If the Germans seriously thought they could challenge English naval superiority they wouldn't have used U-boats as heavily as they did.

not accurate. I'm quite sure from what I've read of the lead up to the Spanish Civil War, that fascism didn't arrive there because of economic problems.

Spain's dynamic is an outlier though. The Spanish Civil war was fundamentally one between conservatism and Catholicism versus liberalism/socialism/communism/anarchism.

I also don't believe this description applies to Italy

Fascism arose because of the devastation inflicted on Europe's economy through the course of the First World War, as well as dissatisfaction with the perceived impotence of democratically elected governments.

 

[von Hapasbourg]

It would have been better if the Austrians won the war. No more for this american and revolutionary bullshit

 

[ColtWalker1847]

@ColtWalker1847 did you read Massie's follow up book? I'm thinking of getting it.

Not yet.

Incorrect about your navy shit.

Lol, ok Mahan. The First and Second Naval Law don't real.

My mistake.

If they thought they could beat the Royal Navy in a straight fight why would they use their navy primarily in a commerce raiding role? The Royal Navy's Grand Fleet tonnage dwarfed the size of the entire Imperial German Navy, the lion's share of which were obsolete per-dreadnoughts. If the Germans seriously thought they could challenge English naval superiority they wouldn't have used U-boats as heavily as they did.

You are thinking about this in WWI terms. Stop. Think about this in 1898-1904 terms. That's when all this went down.

The Germans didn't intend to fight the RN straight up. They wanted to be able to go after them when they were weak. Like if they brawled with the Frenchies or something they would sweep in and mop up. Tirpiz had a whole strategy for it.
Unfortunately for them the British reacted pretty strongly. First, they got Jackie Fisher to overhaul the RN so they kept their technical and skill edge (Tirpiz counted on that a lot). Second was making nice with the French who were every bit as spooked as the British by the German building programs allowing the RN to pivot the Home Fleet towards the North Sea (rather than having it scattered all over the damn place). Third was build build build.

 

[verissimus]

It would have been better if the Austrians won the war. No more for this american and revolutionary bullshit

Fuck that. Nothing good ever came from Austria except Arnold Schwartzeneggar and Mozart.

 

[Kamov Ka-52]

Fuck that. Nothing good ever came from Austria except Arnold Schwartzeneggar and Mozart.

The women aren't bad.

 

[Niggernerd]

No and yes.
Yes:Because they're uniforms were aesthetic and remind me of the rebel army from Metal Slug, so our unified military uniforms would be cool as fuck Also space tech might of been more advanced than it is now, so we would be able to invade ayy lmaos in style.
No:They just sound angry all the time and if they ruled the world i'd hate to go into their stores because I'll think they hate me when they're just advertising great deals on weinerschnizels and offering me samples.

 

[von Hapasbourg]

Germany's biggest mistake was allying with Austria-Hungary over Russia.

the Russians didnt want to ally with the Germans in the first place. They wanted to take Pomerania from them