Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread -

Which country(ies) will fare the worst due to the WuFlu?


  • Total voters
    2,282

AltisticRight

Free 🌽 202 E 37th St VA, Richmond, 901-922-9912
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Update sepentza:
This hatred of foreigners by China is unacceptable:

My Take. Yup know this first hand...
I'm pretty sure he misread the law or was told untrue things, typical to all these China-centric channels. Either regurgitate CCP trash or whatever they are fed online that goes to the other extreme.

The immigration policy is an either or, not "tick all the boxes".
So it's either invest 2+ million dollars, or make scientific contributions, or be a stable job provider, or be exceptional in sports/economics/education.

Also the guy ranting on about people using the nigger word and racism and xenophobia... get the fuck over yourself. If anything, his cherrypicked screenshots show Weibo has more freedom of speech, pathetic coward. Can't complain about immigration policies on Twitter can you? The guy assuming scientific contribution means stealing scientific knowledge is also rich, especially since he whinged about "muh prejudice, muh xenophobia" crap. Isn't he a globalist, then shouldn't scientific knowledge benefit the globalised world?

I don't endorse this shitty argument, but I must make it. I have no inferiority complex and I don't give a shit about being faced with xenophobia or being xenophobic. I have no persecution complex because I understand that people are fundamentally different and I can just ignore ones I do not like.

Back in the days when western countries opened up, all sorts of coloured people that moved in were met with the same treatment. It's not even say, white on Chinese or black, you'd see the Greeks and Italians being met with the same xenophobia. So what does this guy want? China to just suddenly open up and everyone within to suddenly jump over their racial mindset and immediately embrace divershitty? Something that's never the case anywhere when such laws were discussed? Whine about communism but expect the equally unrealistic thing to happen? So Ching Chong Ling Long posting incel nigger sperg on weibo can't and shouldn't vote no because his uncle is living outside of China? What?

Then this guy whinges about nationalism. What a fucking crybaby. Wonder if they talked about Uganda implementing miscegenation laws against people, especially the Chinese that came in and married their women. Did Australia or the USA get to vote on opening up for immigration? If yes, then great, it was passed, China did the same and it wasn't. If no, then what the fuck is he whining about?

The main criticism of the law isn't contained to Weibo nigger hating autism, people are saying it's way too vague and timing is too odd (which it fucking is, it's vague as shit). The biggest point of contention I've seen was China's own fucking problems. People in China are saying lots of Chinese don't even have access to health benefits, the Internet, and public transport. The country is simply not capable to accept immigration. People who are critical of the law aren't sperging about how Tyrone or Jamal will marry their women. Also, so what if some see that as a problem? The guy didn't refute the argument, all he did was shit out 白左 drivel about racism and xenophobia. As if either is the original sin.

People in China are being quarantined due to the virus, angry, cynical, ready to voice their disdain and grievances at any given moment or chance. Then this law comes, people are ready to let it all out, along with bash the government which they usually don't have a chance to. The timing of this law is incredible, and only an imbecile can't piece together a reason behind the utter backlash. Imagine being home 24/7 for several months, plans for CNY gone, once a year fun gatherings and travel all fell through with no refunds, and then some weird vague as shit law popped out. You're gonna just suddenly embrace divershitty or go on extensive rants and whine about those 尼哥 (ni ge) because it's fun?

Did the guy even bring the proposed law up? Nope, it's just him riding his bike and whinging about the two words beginning with R and X.

This guy is the type of idiot that pulls memes of /pol/ to make an argument that everyone is turning into a Nazi.

I'll post the proposed law and fully translate it in a couple hours. Why do these shitty China channels make me either want to defend dipshits I'm indifferent to or nuke Beijing?

Fuck this gay world.
 
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DewsLit

kiwifarms.net
Archive
THL: Four new coronavirus infections detected in Finland in Pirkanmaa, Uusimaa and Northern Savonia - total now 23
Two of the new cases are in the Helsinki and Uusimaa Hospital District. Most of the coronavirus infections so far identified is in this hospital district, with a total of 14 cases. In the Northern Savonia Hospital District, the first coronavirus infection of that hospital district has been identified.
The case is related to tourism in northern Italy. In addition, there is one case in the Pirkanmaa Hospital District related to coronavirus infection previously found in Finland. A total of 23 coronavirus infections have now been detected in Finland. In addition to the above-mentioned hospital districts, infections have been found in Northern Ostrobothnia, Kanta-Häme, South Karelia and in the Lapland Hospital District, where infection with a Chinese traveler was the first case of coronavirus in Finland.
 
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AltisticRight

Free 🌽 202 E 37th St VA, Richmond, 901-922-9912
Local Moderator
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Here's some funny memes and my translation, and a summary of criticism that doesn't involve "we are chinks that hate niggers on weibo".
1583657151531.png
1583657184381.png
(< this is guangzhou BTW)
1583657216646.png
(A picture says a thousand words)

This law was proposed as Coronachan continues to take lives, so it's tangentially related.

Alright, here's the law itself:
1583657252416.png
The law is just one page long.
Australia's, many pages long: https://www.australia.gov.au/information-and-services/immigration-and-visas
USA, same, there's lots of pages: https://www.usa.gov/immigration-and-citizenship
The proposed law is missing a whole bunch of entries. That's why it's vague and that why it's being criticised. Can immigrants get Chinese citizenship? What happens when they commit fraud or worse violent crimes? What about marriage and their children? Will they be deported? Naturalisation? Are they required to be fluent in the Chinese language? There's so many questions, many obvious ones that are crucial to immigration policies that are missing. Besides Weibo acting like the Chink/pol/ when it comes to nigger memes, there's a myriad of valid criticism to make against this proposed law.

Now, I'll translate it.

Chapter Two Requirements for application [of permanent residency (PR)]
#10: Foreigner who abides by Chinese law, has the economics means to live independently in China, and meets the requirements, are allowed to apply for permanent residency in China.
Foreigners who are in China on the basis of foreign relations or business affairs will not be allowed to apply during their stay in China.

#11: Foreigners who provided extraordinary help to China's economy, meeting one of the following requirements, and being recommended by Chinese officials, provincial government, autonomous regions, or municipalities, can apply for PR.
a) Contributing greatly to technology, education, culture, sports, health etc.
b) Charities with great contributions.
c) Contributions to Chinese foreign relations, friendliness among different nations, global peace and global development.
d) Other means of contributions to China's economy

#12 Internationally recognised figures in economics, technology, sports, culture, education, health etc who holds exceptional achievements can apply for PR.

#13 Foreigners who are experts in certain fields and needed to further improve China's economy, meeting one of the below, can apply for PR:
a) Crucial industries and areas recognised by the government, which require experts and specialists.
b) Nationally recognised higher level schools, technological departments invited and recommended assistant doctors, assistant researchers and above experts in the field of technology (or what we call STEM), or other high level schools and technological departments invited and recommended doctors and researchers, are allowed to apply.
c) Highly advanced technological companies, innovative companies, and famous Chinese companies' invited and recommended high end managers (COO?) and experts.
d) Foreigners fulfilling #12 and successfully acquiring Chinese PR can recommend foreign experts to apply.

#14 Chinese immigration office should coordinate with foreign relations, development, education, technology, human resources, social secutiry, business, culture, health, sports etc departments to discuss further on the scope of #12 and #13, includes but not limited to the basis of the laws.

#15 Foreigners legally working in China, and meeting one of the following requirements, and having good credit when it comes to taxation and banking loans, can apply for PR:
a) PhD, or graduated from internationally recognised colleges, been working in China for 3 years and accumulative residency in China for no less than a year.
b) Nationally recognised crucial fields, departments, having 3 consecutive years of work and accumulative residency of no less than one year, and income that is no less than 4 times the average income within the same area of the previous year. (basically, income needs to be 4x of the average of the same industry in the same area the previous year)
c) Working in China for 4 years, accumulative residency of no less than 2 years, income that is no less than 6 times the average income of the same area the previous year.
d) Working in China for 8 years, accumulative residency of no less than 4 years, income that is no less than 3 times the average income of the same area the previous year.
(Note, just the average income, NOT within the same industry, just the same area. Working in tech easily outdoes the average income by 10+ times)
Income in points b) and d) are the minimum requirement, and the standards are to be implements by the governments of the specific regions. (getting a bit lazy, the governments are provincial, municipalities... blahblah, basically the local gov)

#16 Foreigners that meet the requirements of investment laws, investing as the natural person or stock owner of the company, meeting one of the following, and having 3 years of constant investments, with good taxation and bank loan scores, can apply for PR:
a) Investment of 10,000,000 yuan, which is 1.44 million USD
b) Investing in industries or areas that are recommended nationally, meeting the requirements in investment, and meeting the standards in taxation and employment percentage of Chinese citizens. (so, what is the percentage? Not mentioned)
c) Implementing high tech companies, innovative companies, with good outcome, and recommended by the local government.

That's it. Simple, isn't it? It's not the must invest $2 million, be a phd, work for many years, be an expert, reeeeee basically impossible why can't I just fuck a chink and get the PR rubbish spouted by that whatever guy who made the video. It's "one of the following", not "all" which is impossible to meet.

If this law passes, immigration to China is pretty simple. Just work there in tech for 3 years, be nice to managers, and let them recommend you. You're not in tech? Then it's going to be 4 or 8 years and you need somewhat higher income than average. Guess what the average is? Having a supplement store on Chinese eCommerce stores easily earns you 10 times the average, source is friends in China. You either have to be an expert of a field, get recommended as worthy, have $1.5 million USD (1.44 is more than fucking 500k away from 2 million, the disparity is larger than the death tolls of Nanking Massacre, 265k VS 230k VS 300k), or contribute greatly to specific industries. "Greatly" isn't defined.

This law is vague as fuck and make it rather simple to immigrate to China, not that many would want to do so.

Excluding incels sperging about nigger international students on weibo (sorry, most nogs won't meet any of the above), here's the criticism I've seen:
- The law is too vague
- A law shouldn't be passed that has "further discussion" in it
- A law shouldn't be passed with standards being listed as "pending"
- Many Chinese still live in utter poverty, we should worry about our locals first
- Who the fuck wants to move to China?
- With healthcare and access to public transport not readily available in tier 3 areas and below, it's way too early to discuss immigration
- Immigration will bring sophisticated racial relations and tension
- There is no requirement for fluency in the Chinese language
- There is no requirement for knowledge of Chinese culture
- What about marriage, and the kids?
- Did anyone forget about the virus?
- Voting online is stupid, have a real one
- Can the PR be taken away if the person breaks the law, and will they be subsequently deported?
- Fuck chain migration (I agree, fuck it)
- 1.4 billion isn't enough?

But of course, for these channels, it's infinitely easier to find some weibo incel ranting on about niggers and make a video scatterbombing utterly useless non-arguments about racism and xenophobia. Why find or pay someone to translate the thing properly and research local laws and technical jargon when you can virtue signal about how much of a not-racist and not-xenophobic 白左 shitbag you are, whilst garnering positivity from equally vapid and xenophiliac yellow-fever infested peers?

I personally think this law is far too ambiguous, it's as if someone drafted it while taking a batshit dump after eating bat sashimi.
At least basic knowledge and relation to local culture must be required to apply for PR in any place. A Chinaman wanting a PR in Australia should know at least our iconic animals, Australia day, and the correct way to eat a sausage sizzle:
1583661288456.png

Fold the bread half, edge to edge, not from the fucking middle you tard.

Conversely, anyone who wants a PR in China should have some connection to Chinese culture, festivals, and icons. DO NOT make it political though. I'll draw the line at National Days.

Moreover, language is important too. PR holders of Australia who can't speak two Engrish sentences are just as pathetic as those living and working in China, who can't speak very basic Chinese. At least primary school level (perhaps year/grade 5 or 6) fluency in the local language should be required.

Chain migration is the definition of being a parasite. That should not be allowed.

What I do agree with that biker guy is marriage. Those who marry, have a stable job, have kids, should be allowed to get a PR. The PR should be taken away if they initiate a divorce 3 years after acquisition for no good reason. This means, those who start relationships to get PRs should have decency. There's plenty of people who do this shit, and I find them distasteful. Marriage is important, not a tool for one's benefit.

All this is babble though, because unless one is diagnosed with severe yellow-fever, who would live there? I wasted 1.5 hours of life translating this horrible joke of a draft.
 

Ponderous Pillock

Welcome to Triple T, Tards, Troons and Trolls!
True & Honest Fan
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Here's some funny memes and my translation, and a summary of criticism that doesn't involve "we are chinks that hate niggers on weibo".
View attachment 1178526View attachment 1178527(< this is guangzhou BTW)
View attachment 1178528(A picture says a thousand words)

Alright, here's the law itself:
The law is just one page long.
Australia's, many pages long: https://www.australia.gov.au/information-and-services/immigration-and-visas
USA, same, there's lots of pages: https://www.usa.gov/immigration-and-citizenship
The proposed law is missing a whole bunch of entries. That's why it's vague and that why it's being criticised. Can immigrants get Chinese citizenship? What happens when they commit fraud or worse violent crimes? What about marriage and their children? Will they be deported? Naturalisation? Are they required to be fluent in the Chinese language? There's so many questions, many obvious ones that are crucial to immigration policies that are missing. Besides Weibo acting like the Chink/pol/ when it comes to nigger memes, there's a myriad of valid criticism to make against this proposed law.

Now, I'll translate it.

Chapter Two Requirements for application [of permanent residency (PR)]
#10: Foreigner who abides by Chinese law, has the economics means to live independently in China, and meets the requirements, are allowed to apply for permanent residency in China.
Foreigners who are in China on the basis of foreign relations or business affairs will not be allowed to apply during their stay in China.

#11: Foreigners who provided extraordinary help to China's economy, meeting one of the following requirements, and being recommended by Chinese officials, provincial government, autonomous regions, or municipalities, can apply for PR.
a) Contributing greatly to technology, education, culture, sports, health etc.
b) Charities with great contributions.
c) Contributions to Chinese foreign relations, friendliness among different nations, global peace and global development.
d) Other means of contributions to China's economy

#12 Internationally recognised figures in economics, technology, sports, culture, education, health etc who holds exceptional achievements can apply for PR.

#13 Foreigners who are experts in certain fields and needed to further improve China's economy, meeting one of the below, can apply for PR:
a) Crucial industries and areas recognised by the government, which require experts and specialists.
b) Nationally recognised higher level schools, technological departments invited and recommended assistant doctors, assistant researchers and above experts in the field of technology (or what we call STEM), or other high level schools and technological departments invited and recommended doctors and researchers, are allowed to apply.
c) Highly advanced technological companies, innovative companies, and famous Chinese companies' invited and recommended high end managers (COO?) and experts.
d) Foreigners fulfilling #12 and successfully acquiring Chinese PR can recommend foreign experts to apply.

#14 Chinese immigration office should coordinate with foreign relations, development, education, technology, human resources, social secutiry, business, culture, health, sports etc departments to discuss further on the scope of #12 and #13, includes but not limited to the basis of the laws.

#15 Foreigners legally working in China, and meeting one of the following requirements, and having good credit when it comes to taxation and banking loans, can apply for PR:
a) PhD, or graduated from internationally recognised colleges, been working in China for 3 years and accumulative residency in China for no less than a year.
b) Nationally recognised crucial fields, departments, having 3 consecutive years of work and accumulative residency of no less than one year, and income that is no less than 4 times the average income within the same area of the previous year. (basically, income needs to be 4x of the average of the same industry in the same area the previous year)
c) Working in China for 4 years, accumulative residency of no less than 2 years, income that is no less than 6 times the average income of the same area the previous year.
d) Working in China for 8 years, accumulative residency of no less than 4 years, income that is no less than 3 times the average income of the same area the previous year.
(Note, just the average income, NOT within the same industry, just the same area. Working in tech easily outdoes the average income by 10+ times)
Income in points b) and d) are the minimum requirement, and the standards are to be implements by the governments of the specific regions. (getting a bit lazy, the governments are provincial, municipalities... blahblah, basically the local gov)

#16 Foreigners that meet the requirements of investment laws, investing as the natural person or stock owner of the company, meeting one of the following, and having 3 years of constant investments, with good taxation and bank loan scores, can apply for PR:
a) Investment of 10,000,000 yuan, which is 1.44 million USD
b) Investing in industries or areas that are recommended nationally, meeting the requirements in investment, and meeting the standards in taxation and employment percentage of Chinese citizens. (so, what is the percentage? Not mentioned)
c) Implementing high tech companies, innovative companies, with good outcome, and recommended by the local government.

That's it. Simple, isn't it? It's not the must invest $2 million, be a phd, work for many years, be an expert, reeeeee basically impossible why can't I just fuck a chink and get the PR rubbish spouted by that whatever guy who made the video. It's "one of the following", not "all" which is impossible to meet.

If this law passes, immigration to China is pretty simple. Just work there in tech for 3 years, be nice to managers, and let them recommend you. You're not in tech? Then it's going to be 4 or 8 years and you need somewhat higher income that average. Guess that the average is? Having a supplement store on Chinese eCommerce stores easily earns you 10 times the average, source is friends in China. You either have to be an expert of a field, get recommended as worthy, have $1.5 million USD (1.44 is more than fucking 500k away from 2 million, the disparity is larger than the death tolls of Nanking Massacre, 265k VS 230k VS 300k), or contribute greatly to specific industries. "Greatly" isn't defined.

This law is vague as fuck and make it rather simple to immigrate to China, not that many would want to do so.

Excluding incels sperging about nigger international students on weibo (sorry, most nogs won't meet any of the above), here's the criticism I've seen:
- The law is too vague
- A law shouldn't be passed that has "further discussion" in it
- A law shouldn't be passed with standards being listed as "pending"
- Many Chinese still live in utter poverty, we should worry about our locals first
- Who the fuck wants to move to China?
- With healthcare and access to public transport not readily available in tier 3 areas and below, it's way too early to discuss immigration
- Immigration will bring sophisticated racial relations and tension
- There is no requirement for fluency in the Chinese language
- There is no requirement for knowledge of Chinese culture
- What about marriage, and the kids?
- Did anyone forget about the virus?
- Voting online is stupid, have a real one
- Can the PR be taken away if the person breaks the law, and will they be subsequently deported?
- Fuck chain migration (I agree, fuck it)
- 1.4 billion isn't enough?

But of course, for these channels, it's infinitely easier to find some weibo incel ranting on about niggers and make a video scatterbombing utterly useless non-arguments about racism and xenophobia. Why find or pay someone to translate the thing properly and research local laws and technical jargon when you can virtue signal about how much of a not-racist and not-xenophobic 白左 shitbag you are, whilst garnering positivity from equally vapid and xenophiliac yellow-fever infested peers?

I personally think this law is far too ambiguous, it's as if someone drafted it while taking a batshit dump after eating bat sashimi.
At least basic knowledge and relation to local culture must be required to apply for PR in any place. A Chinaman wanting a PR in Australia should know at least our iconic animals, Australia day, and the correct way to eat a sausage sizzle:
View attachment 1178563
Fold the bread half, edge to edge, not from the fucking middle you tard.

Conversely, anyone who wants a PR in China should have some connection to Chinese culture, festivals, and icons. DO NOT make it political though. I'll draw the line at National Days.

Moreover, language is important too. PR holders of Australia who can't speak two Engrish sentences are just as pathetic as those living and working in China, who can't speak very basic Chinese. At least primary school level (perhaps year/grade 5 or 6) fluency in the local language should be required.

Chain migration is the definition of being a parasite. That should not be allowed.

What I do agree with that biker guy is marriage. Those who marry, have a stable job, have kids, should be allowed to get a PR. The PR should be taken away if they initiate a divorce 3 years after acquisition for no good reason. This means, those who start relationships to get PRs should have decency. There's plenty of people who do this shit, and I find them distasteful. Marriage is important, not a tool for one's benefit.

All this is babble though, because unless one is diagnosed with severe yellow-fever, who would live there? I wasted 1.5 hours of life translating this horrible joke of a draft.

Maaaaaaan. Them yellow slant eye bug eaters sure hate the Jiggaboos don't they?
 

Male Idiot

Das rite!
kiwifarms.net
So am I very sensitive or does anyone else instantly lose attraction for that handsome stranger at the supermarket when you see him with four cartons of toilet paper in his trolley? Something about that level of butthole focusedness is rather offputting. Maybe it's evolution telling me his diet may be lacking?

Nope, it is just your fetish for unwiped arses. Evolution is not sentient, and TP is very new in evolutionary time scale.
 

AltisticRight

Free 🌽 202 E 37th St VA, Richmond, 901-922-9912
Local Moderator
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Maaaaaaan. Them yellow slant eye bug eaters sure hate the Jiggaboos don't they?
Any sane person would.

Guangzhou prisons are full of nogs, it's not even a joke anymore. I've seen leaked photos and holy shit, it's as black as Detroit. There's black people who do business and start families to make their lives better, and there's these smelly niggers whose only ability is to fuck women and do crimes.

1583663245973.png

Oof... some of these are too funny to not laugh at.
 
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Ponderous Pillock

Welcome to Triple T, Tards, Troons and Trolls!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Meanwhile, in the UK:

3 Million volunteers are to be called upon to help cover gaps in the care system for a few hours at a time. It will also be illegal to penalise any workers who decide to volunteer for this role.

That's likely to be under "mitigation" measures and might help cover non-essential duties or help bolster cleaning teams etc etc.
 

EmuWarsVeteran

Lord Kek's Faithful Servant.
kiwifarms.net
Meanwhile, in the UK:

3 Million volunteers are to be called upon to help cover gaps in the care system for a few hours at a time. It will also be illegal to penalise any workers who decide to volunteer for this role.

That's likely to be under "mitigation" measures and might help cover non-essential duties or help bolster cleaning teams etc etc.

Ah yes, the Dunkirk strategy. Welp it is a good idea in paper. Celadores, cleaning staff and other aids need little to no training and only basic discipline (and by that I mean enough not to steal shit). Hope they do check the discipline part.

This was 5+ years and a shit load of braincells ago so i was paraphrasing, also he was talking post ww2, hence a comparison with the Soviets. Like doesnt the abrams tank need like 1000 hours of work for 2 hours of use or some insane shit like that?

The good news is that this seems to be slowing down/lots more recovering outside of china. This is maxing out at 2% kill rate. This might legitimately be dealt with by june

Well let me put on my history hat for a second and offer an alternative. Now, I don't claim to be an expert on any of this, I just enjoy ww1/interwar/ww2 mechanization as a hobby, and am applying that to cold war era, so take all of these with two massive mountains of salt.

When looking at mid to late WW2 tanks, you need to take into account each countrie's circumstances. They really explain the difference between each side. Xcept for britain. Britain just kinda threw everything at the wall and saw what stuck. Which to be fair worked well enough.

-Germany was seeing its production chain fucked, so they started ramping up the tech war with frankly ridiculous big cats. This was generally a good strategy because they were already going on the defensive, so slow big dick guns that could wreck in ambushes was what they'd need. It wasn't all good because it put a massive strain on their mechanics (transmission fire, just transmission fire), and some of their tanks were either seriously unfit to be on the defensive (sturmtigger, a tank designed to shell enemy towns that would be perfect on stalingrad, designed when the russians were already past the german frontier. Fucking kek. Also elephant, a tank whose biggest issue is being unable to handle even the slightest slopes due to massive weight, sent to Italy, kekamundo!) And some were just idiotic (ferdinand, ratte, to a lesser degree the meme that is the maus) but generally, it was the best they could do.

-Russia knew as soon as Barbarossa it was the atrition game for them. So they stuck with what worked well enough and could be produced in massive numbers. Everyone points out every country around them modded the russian tanks into technically superior variants. But that's because russian tanks were meant to come in waves, not be heroes individually, whereas finland and co needed to mod tanks because they had less. For the russians, it was all about ensuring a constant flow straight to the frontline.

-The USA. The important one here. Knew right from the start its supply like was FUCKED. Their factories were at the other side of the god damned ocean, so sending spare parts for repair was gonna get hard, which meant everything sent to the war needed to be reliable and easy enough for the crew to abandon without hurting their suplies. This is why the M3 was their stockgap, it followed the same principle as the tank destroyers of everyone else, except they added like way too many secondary guns and made it way too tall. But it was a good call despite the memes, and the sherman was the epitome of this. Reliable as fuck until it got hit, easy to abandon once it did. Exactly what the USA needed.

So how does this apply to cold war? Well it's the same thing really. Most of the fighting happened on asia. Russia could easily keep flooding the battlefield with their war of attrition machines, the USA had an ocean to deal with, hence, the tactics kept the same. It's not that either of them didn't understand the other's secrets, it's that their tactics needed to differ. Russia needed to ensure the front didn't roll back into its factories, the USA could let the front fall all the way to the beach but needed to ensure its tanks wouldn't need 3 billion repairs, hence the russians built repairable tanks that could be sent parts constantly and built en masse while the USA built tanks that could get to the frontline quickly and reliably even if the supplies went to shit, do their thing, and be abandoned once they get fucked.
 
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Jet Fuel Johnny

Full Metal Sperg
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Like doesnt the abrams tank need like 1000 hours of work for 2 hours of use or some insane shit like that?
Not even close. 8 hours of maintenance, roughly, per hour of use. I've seen tanks go out for 30 days of fire and manuever training back when 2nd Armor was still a thing and the entire motorpool be done inside a week. It does really good for a 50 year old tank. Some of those chassis are old M1A1's from the 80's that have undergone SLEP (Service Life Extension Program) to bring them up to modern standards, although most of those old frames were either sold to allies or dumped into the ocean to make a reef.

While it is true that the fastest way to kill a tank is to shoot the mechanic, it's still a wrecking machine.

So how does this apply to cold war? Well it's the same thing really. Most of the fighting happened on asia. Russia could easily keep flooding the battlefield with their war of attrition machines, the USA had an ocean to deal with, hence, the tactics kept the same. It's not that either of them didn't understand the other's secrets, it's that their tactics needed to differ. Russia needed to ensure the front didn't roll back into its factories, the USA could let the front fall all the way to the beach but need3d to ensure its tanks wouldn't need 3 billion repairs, hence the russians built repairable tanks while the USA built tanks that could get to the frontline quickly, do their thing, and be abandoned once they get fucked.
They also had to be largely "field repairable", and the Forward Sustainment [Unit] AKA Forward Support [Unit] was expected to be right behind them and move up after any battle to assist in refuel, rearm, and repair.

Practice was done for winter fighting, where Ordnance Companies would practice handing off fucking 120mm shells from the back of CUC-V or cargo trucks to the crew of the tank to be hand loaded in while still moving. I heard they don't do it any more but during the old WINTEX they refueled on the move if they had to.

Because of the very real threat of nuclear spam from the USSR, the tanks were also designated (for some units like 1/68th Armor) to be "crew expendable" and once they were welded into their tanks by a face roll of tactical nuclear weapons in the 20-200kt range, they were expected to fight to the end. M1A1 and M1 were designed to be able to "rock back" the shockwave of a near-nuke hit, up to 11.5 psi blast wave. The NBC systems would keep the crew alive (in theory) till they could be cut out of the tank.

A lot of support units, even Ordnance Units, had mechanics that were cross-trained to do basic maintenance on the M1 series, the Bradley, the M113, the Crash Hawk, and the Apache.

The theory was a combination of the USSR leapfrogging over the forward units, instead hitting down on the plains, while forcing the US to come at them through the Gap, since the Gap was going to be a hellscape. The US plan was to counter-drive through the gap, pour through it like locusts. V Corps nuclear assets, including hot-loaded tanks, were to drive for Moscow, paying particular attention to flat out nuking Stalingrad for shits and giggles, with a few tanker units from central West Germany plugging the Gap if Hawk Hill in Wildflecken fell, just in case the USSR decided to counter-thrust. The VII Corps units up by the Gap were to swing South, hitting the Soviets down on the plains from behind.

Armored units knew they had a low life expectancy, but the goal was to make it 72 hours until the relief forces from CONUS arrived, with V Corps wreaking as much havoc in the USSR in a death ride to Moscow and beyond, to break Russia's back without ICBM work. To do that, the M1 series tank was designed to go 120 hours without maintenance beyond smacking out the air filters on the back deck, *maybe* changing a few other filters (including NBC filters), and reloading on the move.

The Abrams was designed for maximum survivability in the face of nuclear and chemical weapons to the point where if they had to, they'd shoot the barrel out. During Desert Storm most tanks went 70+ hours without maintenance as the tanks were stress tested during Desert Shield and Operation Crescent Saber.

But hey, who knows how it would have gone. With VII Corps luck they all would have thrown a track 50' from the motorpool and V Corps would have been too drunk to do anything because the USSR attacked the first Sunday after payday.

Obligatory Joke: What do you call a six-pack of beer and a potato? An Irish 7-course meal.
 
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Ponderous Pillock

Welcome to Triple T, Tards, Troons and Trolls!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Not even close. 8 hours of maintenance, roughly, per hour of use. I've seen tanks go out for 30 days of fire and manuever training back when 2nd Armor was still a thing and the entire motorpool be done inside a week. It does really good for a 50 year old tank. Some of those chassis are old M1A1's from the 80's that have undergone SLEP (Service Life Extension Program) to bring them up to modern standards, although most of those old frames were either sold to allies or dumped into the ocean to make a reef.

While it is true that the fastest way to kill a tank is to shoot the mechanic, it's still a wrecking machine.

Obligatory Joke: What do you call a six-pack of beer and a potato? An Irish 7-course meal.

It feels like people forgetting it's 8 hours total time of a mechanic team of like, 10 dudes.
 

Logical Fallacies

I am no god, but if I was I'd be an angry god.
kiwifarms.net
The biggest thing I've noticed since this broke in the mainstream in the past week or two is the mixed messaging. Shit, I even see it ITT. You have people declaring it's over, it's a nothingburger, everyone is panicking for no reason and the media is hyping up for ratings. Then you have ramping up of shutting shit down, escalating plans for dealing with it, etc. And we're not even at 2/1/20 China timeline yet. It's hard to tell who to believe.

It puts me in mind of 9/11. The absolute shock. I went into practical mode right away that morning, withdrawing a couple hundred from the ATM and worrying about how to get home. But in a week the planes were flying again, baseball games were happening, stores were open. Gas spiked for a couple years as did patriotism and security theater/surveillance but beyond that it was far from TEOTWAWKI. So is this 9/11 again? Will we be back to normal by 4/1? Or will there be more cancellations of events, domestic flights, quarantines through summer and beyond? A real change in how we live in America and the world in general? I honestly don't know. I do know I was immediately surprised by how fast panic manifested in Italy and then here.

I do still lean towards what I thought back in January--the actual rate of death will be low, and the average bear has little risk of infection, but the real danger will be economic. Because the supply chain is in many cases several months out, we will see the true effects in late summer and fall with empty shelves in stores, store closures and layoffs, stocks tanking for realsies. Even if the infection is largely subsided.

If factories can be moved or China is truly back to work as they claim, we might have a decent Christmas, but I have my doubts. They are trying to say it's subsiding in China, but I still believe there will be another mass wave as the formerly quarantined are let back out and jammed into factories and offices. I still predict at least a 2008/9 level recession if not Depression.



I am amazed by the people who mock and shame folks buying TP/sanitizer/bleach "instead of food."

JGnPHg5.gif


You do realize for a lot of people this isn't some zero sum game with a binary choice of "TP or FOOD" right?

I went out and bought 2 giant packs of TP. I'm not home a lot, so honestly each one is like a 1.5 year supply. So worst case I don't buy TP for 3 years. It's not filling a room or anything like an ep of Hoarders--it chills in my storage room with the paper towels. I bought 3 mos worth of long term food and a month of water (I have really good muni water that tests good and tastes like bottled with a cheap filter and I don't think it will get shut off anytime soon). All this "massive prep" fit in my kitchen cabinets with room to spare.

Now I spent probably $50 on the TP, and yeah I could have bought food. But if I wanted $50 more of food I could just...go and buy $50 more today? It's not like that was my last General Grant I was dropping on Charmin.

Good for you to be so prepared but I wasn't talking about people like you. And it's absolutely legit to make fun about people reverting back into apes over a pack of toilet paper.

To quote what I said before:

And still laughing at people wasting money on toilet paper and shit, instead of water and food. If worse comes to worst, you'll stop worrying how to wipe your precious butt or your hands, you'll worry about food. Most of these people were never poor enough to actually hunger. You go without food for two days and we'll see how you feel about stupid TP. You can't make a steak out of toilet paper nor will you learn how to hunt in one day. Very human, modern luxuries before basic needs.

My opinions are based on my life experiences. Your life experiences are probably different. No one stops you or other people from buying (or fighting over the last roll of) TP. However, no one stops me from commenting on it, either.

_______________________________________

Btw, Germany now has 939 cases, but official statistics haven't updated yet. They still say 847. And the Swiss is super mad we won't give them protective gear.

 

Coleslaw

kiwifarms.net
The biggest point of contention I've seen was China's own fucking problems. People in China are saying lots of Chinese don't even have access to health benefits, the Internet, and public transport. The country is simply not capable to accept immigration. People who are critical of the law aren't sperging about how Tyrone or Jamal will marry their women. Also, so what if some see that as a problem?
Nothing about black people, there aren't enough in all of Africa to replace us. The problem is competition is through the roof for education and jobs, transit and roads are crowded as all hell, and house prices are through the roof. We literally have no room for anybody new.
 

Menotaur

kiwifarms.net
It would seem new models will come out this week based on some data that is coming to light - and that is that there are a vast number of asymptomatic cases that are out there, but it would appear that not only are they remaining asymptomatic for a few weeks, but longer or permanently i.e. throwing off very very minor symptoms and recovering without anything but a bit of rest at home. Take as an example the the ship on the Nile. All cases on board (45) Asymptomatic as of now and they've been infected for 2 weeks. It will be interesting to see how they all fair by Mid March as a case study.

It is particularly interesting to note how the virus is taking off in quarantine areas where people are following elementary procedures to avoid contamination. I'd say this virus is more contagious than almost can be believed, but I also suspect we have far far more cases out there, so it's mortality rate may settle out at 1% or lower.
 

Pokemonquistador2

Electric Boogaloo
kiwifarms.net
Good for you to be so prepared but I wasn't talking about people like you. And it's absolutely legit to make fun about people reverting back into apes over a pack of toilet paper.

To quote what I said before:



My opinions are based on my life experiences. Your life experiences are probably different. No one stops you or other people from buying (or fighting over the last roll of) TP. However, no one stops me from commenting on it, either.

_______________________________________

Btw, Germany now has 939 cases, but official statistics haven't updated yet. They still say 847. And the Swiss is super mad we won't give them protective gear.


Gotta disagree about the TP. A shitty butt is going to cause trouble for morale, as is looking around your apartment for napkins, coloring books, and scrap pieces of paper to wipe your ass with. And that's if you're single. Ever try keeping a bunch of under-5 kids clean without toilet paper?

Sure, food and water are higher on the necessity scale, but hygiene is just as important, and I see no reason why I wouldn't stock up on buttwipe at the earliest opportunity while I'm buying the more important stuff.
 

Otterly

Primark Primarch
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Still no deaths in germany. i think beer is the solution to this problem.

it’s the wurst (BOOM BOOM.)

Can one of the medkiwis like @Otterly explain why it is so exciting to these guys (aside from money)?
It’s implying that it takes down IL6, which is an interleukin and a key part of the process that triggers a cytokine storm.

I got a quick question. If you don't have a preexisting condition, how long does it take for the immune system to stabilize/recover after successfully fighting off an illness? So like hypothetically, if someone's recovered from the flu, how long should it take for their body to be strong enough to take on another illness?

not possible to say, too many variables. Have a flu jab if you’ve not already had one, and the pneumonia jab if available. You can fight off two things at a time, how sick you will get is going to depend on your general condition, your own individual genetic background and possibly the level of virus you’re exposed to. If you’re young, healthy and don’t smoke, you will probably be OK. If you do smoke, stop that right this moment. Smoking is the worst thing you can do for your health. Everything else is moderation (food, booze, just don’t overdo it) but smoking is just bad.

I'm going to give my potentially unpopular take on all of this; WHO and CDC is just as clueless as we are and the mainstream media is just making things worse. WHO and CDC need to get their shit together and start testing and the mainstream media needs to stop circling this pandemic like fucking vultures and spreading panic about anecdotal or coincidental details happening in China.
WHO are a political body. And a large one - some parts are effective but the main leadership is political. The WHo could cease to exist tomorrow and not much would change. CDC is a different beast and something I respect much more. There’s a gradually increasing infiltration of Management Types but there are people working for the CDC who will literally take a mobile lab to an outbreak of an unknown disease and get working, at huge risk to themselves. The CDC generally are good, the problem is the layer of people between the people doing the actual work (the scientists medic and epidemiologists) and the public. As with most organisations, that layer is less competent but has more power.
 

Ponderous Pillock

Welcome to Triple T, Tards, Troons and Trolls!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Gotta disagree about the TP. A shitty butt is going to cause trouble for morale, as is looking around your apartment for napkins, coloring books, and scrap pieces of paper to wipe your ass with. And that's if you're single. Ever try keeping a bunch of under-5 kids clean without toilet paper?

Hose 'em down out back. Every time they get a speck of dust or snot on 'em. Hose pipe.
 

Male Idiot

Das rite!
kiwifarms.net
I need to stock up some TP as well.

Forgot about it when buying 70% alcohol gel, rice and canned food and some water.

Also, learn my friends: If you argue over an item, it goes to the person who wipes a booger on it first.... or wipes his rubber gloves all over it in this case.
Best not to mine for Nurgle Nose treasure and keep your mask on.
 

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