Dramacow Zoe Quinn / Chelsea Van Valkenburg / Locke Valentine / @UnburntWitch / @Primeape / CrashOverride - Cunt, slept with 5 guys, Con Artist, ruined own life & blamed neckbeards, ANTIFA field medic

Tanner Glass

kiwifarms.net
I think I asked this a while back but "narrative design" is just a self-indulgent way of saying writer, right?
It's extremely self indulgent and probably should be called "Scenario Writer" as the main difference is a "Narrative Designer" is a writer for interactive media (as opposed to non-interactive media, like movies and books). It's used as a "catch all" title for people who "design" a game, without contributing coding, art/asset design, gameplay design, music/sound design, level design, or any thing else that could be called tangible design.

It's primarily useful for very large RPG games where you will frequently have huge lists of options for a large number of quests that all interact (like early Fallout games) and most people think of Chris Avelone (although he was more than just the Narrative Designer on his games, he was also the lead designer/Sr. Designer) when thinking of a "real" Narrative Designer. The game announced doesn't look like it needs a dedicated narrative designer and if they have been working on it for two years already, they don't have much to show for it in that trailer.

But then again, Zoe has also been working on that Pound me in the Butt game for three years and has even less to show for that.
 

Anonymus Fluhre

No man fears what he has seen grow
kiwifarms.net
The people running the Hugo's do know that if they nominate a comic book that isn't selling and rated as mediocre by reviewers and fans alike will just make their awards look even worse right? Lost Light became shit after they left Megatron behind in another universe. It's why people were looking for the IDW Transformers to end and hoped another comic book company would take up the IP, turns out IDW still has it but Hasbro has forced them to do the story their way. No more IDW shit, no more IDW character or designs. It's all Hasbro.


It's extremely self indulgent and probably should be called "Scenario Writer" as the main difference is a "Narrative Designer" is a writer for interactive media (as opposed to non-interactive media, like movies and books). It's used as a "catch all" title for people who "design" a game, without contributing coding, art/asset design, gameplay design, music/sound design, level design, or any thing else that could be called tangible design.

It's primarily useful for very large RPG games where you will frequently have huge lists of options for a large number of quests that all interact (like early Fallout games) and most people think of Chris Avelone (although he was more than just the Narrative Designer on his games, he was also the lead designer/Sr. Designer) when thinking of a "real" Narrative Designer. The game announced doesn't look like it needs a dedicated narrative designer and if they have been working on it for two years already, they don't have much to show for it in that trailer.

But then again, Zoe has also been working on that Pound me in the Butt game for three years and has even less to show for that.
My old GM was a narrative designer for a major game developer, his job was to take what the writers had and make it make sense and take the best parts of it. a 500-page tome became 200-pages of story.
 

Sissy Galvez

kiwifarms.net
The people running the Hugo's do know that if they nominate a comic book that isn't selling and rated as mediocre by reviewers and fans alike will just make their awards look even worse right? Lost Light became shit after they left Megatron behind in another universe. It's why people were looking for the IDW Transformers to end and hoped another comic book company would take up the IP, turns out IDW still has it but Hasbro has forced them to do the story their way. No more IDW shit, no more IDW character or designs. It's all Hasbro.




My old GM was a narrative designer for a major game developer, his job was to take what the writers had and make it make sense and take the best parts of it. a 500-page tome became 200-pages of story.
They’ve given a Hugo award to N.K Jemisin three times now, I believe Frank Wu has several Hugo awards in the fan category, Zoe almost beat Ursula K Leguin, they keep giving awards based on skin color....

It’s safe to say the Hugo’s have been a joke for many years now and mean jack shit now. Sci-fi and fantasy fans know this already.
 

Cyber Bowling

kiwifarms.net
Narrative design is hard to pin down an exact description of because the responsibilities tend to vary from place to place or even project to project. Sometimes all the narrative designer does is create a basic outline for what the dialogue should look like, which is given to the writers who create the actual dialogue/descriptions/whatever. Usually, they also help with the writing though. Other times they take more of an editorial role and sign off on dialogue or take written dialogue and pick when/where it goes in the game. Think something like Mass Effect where your NPCs all have dialogue they fire off in hub, the designer is the one who decides how far a dialogue tree goes and when the next branch can trigger.

With Quinn, I'd guess it was more of a glorified consultant credit. They probably ran the script by her to look for "problematic" things or get the vaguest of suggestions, but I can't imagine she did any substantial work, if for no other reason than she wasn't consistently bragging about it. It doesn't seem like it was an unannounced project she couldn't freely discuss up until now. If Quinn did any actual writing, it'll be pretty obvious, she has a distinct "I'm trying to be quirky/clever but completely failing and come off as insufferable" writing style.
 

Anonymus Fluhre

No man fears what he has seen grow
kiwifarms.net
Narrative design is hard to pin down an exact description of because the responsibilities tend to vary from place to place or even project to project. Sometimes all the narrative designer does is create a basic outline for what the dialogue should look like, which is given to the writers who create the actual dialogue/descriptions/whatever. Usually, they also help with the writing though. Other times they take more of an editorial role and sign off on dialogue or take written dialogue and pick when/where it goes in the game. Think something like Mass Effect where your NPCs all have dialogue they fire off in hub, the designer is the one who decides how far a dialogue tree goes and when the next branch can trigger.

With Quinn, I'd guess it was more of a glorified consultant credit. They probably ran the script by her to look for "problematic" things or get the vaguest of suggestions, but I can't imagine she did any substantial work, if for no other reason than she wasn't consistently bragging about it. It doesn't seem like it was an unannounced project she couldn't freely discuss up until now. If Quinn did any actual writing, it'll be pretty obvious, she has a distinct "I'm trying to be quirky/clever but completely failing and come off as insufferable" writing style.
Seems Bioware changed the name of their Narrative Designer to Narrative Systems Designer. No clue when they did that. Even when they were hiring more manpower for Anthem they still called it Narrative Design.

I wonder if Zoe will talk about how she couldn't do her comic her way due to the way DC Comics does story design. Like I'm sure they brought her on board, told her what the story was going to be about and then write a story around it. Also, I hope people pick up DC's High Level instead. It has better artwork and a better story. it's like the guy who's doing it understands Cyberpunk. Too bad the author will be at ECCC with Zoe. I feel sorry for him.


I like how she's claiming to be a part of ECCC and C2E2 (and GDC?) despite them overlapping each other and how she's not listed as a guest for either one.
She's doing this panel

Dumbass still doesn't think gamers/ comic book fans can be the same thing.
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m0rnutz

Not a furry
kiwifarms.net
What do you mean? James Jacobs of Paizo has been changing a lot of "uncomfortable" lore for awhile now, even blaming a former writer for the "misogyny" despite personally okaying it. The people that run Roll20 are SJWs. I think DnD even introduced genderfluid elves or something along those lines. They don't have to run magazines and shit, they already run the asylum. The only saving grace is that any DM worth their salt can go "lol no" and do their own thing.
Im a newbie at DnD but isn't the entire premise that there no fleshed story?
 

MirrorNoir

Un, deux, trois, dit miroir noir
kiwifarms.net
I wonder if Zoe will talk about how she couldn't do her comic her way due to the way DC Comics does story design. Like I'm sure they brought her on board, told her what the story was going to be about and then write a story around it. Also, I hope people pick up DC's High Level instead. It has better artwork and a better story. it's like the guy who's doing it understands Cyberpunk. Too bad the author will be at ECCC with Zoe. I feel sorry for him.
You give the bitch too much credit.

Most likely she told Robbie (the artists) a barebones plot for what she wanted her comic to be about. And Robbie swore up and down he'd do the actual writing for the series and basically do all of Zoe's work for her, while letting her get all of the credit. Zoe herself doesn't care, because Robbie's an anti-life entity who won't snitch on her.
 

Smaug's Smokey Hole

dragron: the bruges tea soirée
kiwifarms.net
The people running the Hugo's do know that if they nominate a comic book that isn't selling and rated as mediocre by reviewers and fans alike will just make their awards look even worse right?
I hope she keeps getting nominated for everything she does, at some point that's going to start to sting.
"My very personal cyberpunk girl-power comic was nominated for an award. It lost to a Transformers comic that no one likes. The year before that my autobiography got nominated. In the sci-fi category. I lost to a dead woman that year. My narrative design for this game have been nominated for best fanzine though I will likely lose to a wikia about One Piece or something." :disgruntledlesbian:
 

Tanner Glass

kiwifarms.net
Im a newbie at DnD but isn't the entire premise that there no fleshed story?
Yes, but also No.

DnD (at it's heart) is just a set of rules, but even those can be changed. You (as a DM) are free to make as much or as little lore for your world as you want and incorporate it how you see fit. You can write "Game of Thrones" levels of layered lore or just literally make it up as you go along, to each their own.

What most people do though, is use the lore given in the DnD guidebooks, which gives DnD a very strong (but technically unofficial) canon. It's a very basic "medieval fantasy" (Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, in a world where Magic exists). There are also a number of alternate books with different settings that are also popular (like Forgotten Realms or Dark Sun) and other games that are similar but with a different setting (Shadowrun).

Tournament/Standard DnD is restricted to the official DnD books, which means all of your characters, races, modules, and adventures all happen (in those formats) inside of the approved DnD canon/lore.

TL;DR
Playing DnD in your friends house means you can play start as a level 1 - Human - SS Shower Operator who is trying to answer the Jewish Question during real-life 1943. If you play DnD in a store or any kind of tournament format (at a con, or a library, etc) you will instead forced to be a level 1 Human Fighter who is going with 3-4 other people to clear out an evil necromancer's cave for a lord/lady/King/whatever.
 

Anonymus Fluhre

No man fears what he has seen grow
kiwifarms.net
You give the bitch too much credit.

Most likely she told Robbie (the artists) a barebones plot for what she wanted her comic to be about. And Robbie swore up and down he'd do the actual writing for the series and basically do all of Zoe's work for her, while letting her get all of the credit. Zoe herself doesn't care, because Robbie's an anti-life entity who won't snitch on her.
Zoe doesn't have the name recognition to do her own comic. I'm guessing DC Comics had the idea for the comic and then Zoe came around to "flesh out" the story. Even CM Punk had little say in the work he did with Marvel, it's why they gave him Drax. She's lucky that she's not a co-writer.
 

ColorfulCassowary

Arrrrr
kiwifarms.net
You give the bitch too much credit.

Most likely she told Robbie (the artists) a barebones plot for what she wanted her comic to be about. And Robbie swore up and down he'd do the actual writing for the series and basically do all of Zoe's work for her, while letting her get all of the credit. Zoe herself doesn't care, because Robbie's an anti-life entity who won't snitch on her.
I can see that happening. Has butthole boy wrote anything beforehand, or is he just an artist?
 

Smaug's Smokey Hole

dragron: the bruges tea soirée
kiwifarms.net
I can see that happening. Has butthole boy wrote anything beforehand, or is he just an artist?
I jokingly posted about Quinn using the Marvel method last year.
In a plot script the artist works from a story synopsis from the writer (or plotter), rather than a full script. The artist creates page-by-page plot details on his or her own, after which the work is returned to the writer for the insertion of dialogue. Due to its widespread use at Marvel Comics beginning in the 1960s, primarily under writer-editor Stan Lee and artists Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko, this approach became commonly known as the Marvel method or Marvel house style.
The dialogue is definitely hers. It's not impossible that the script is basically "scene: in the cryogenics warehouse, she looks at stuff, soldiers come in, end scene. Dialogue: wordswordswordswordswords x 1000", repeat. From that the greasy artist figures out the panels, angles and flow, then the letterer squeezes in all the words. There's a lot of words. The first page of the first issue was overflowing with them and it wasn't like they could be broken up and spread over more panels/pages without bumping the 888 in those pages over to the next, which bumps the words on that page over to the next and so on. The art on the last page would have the words that should have been on page 14, it would be like when the audio drifts out of sync in a movie.
 

The Shadow

The Shadow knows!
kiwifarms.net
What do you mean? James Jacobs of Paizo has been changing a lot of "uncomfortable" lore for awhile now, even blaming a former writer for the "misogyny" despite personally okaying it. The people that run Roll20 are SJWs. I think DnD even introduced genderfluid elves or something along those lines. They don't have to run magazines and shit, they already run the asylum. The only saving grace is that any DM worth their salt can go "lol no" and do their own thing.
The tabletop industry seemed to get in bed with the SJWs fast. It was fast enough that I think not many people noticed until after it was entrenched, but you don't have to dig very deep to find it permeating the industry.
 

Rekkington

Obama chuckled. "You mean the chaos emeralds?"
kiwifarms.net
I think I asked this a while back but "narrative design" is just a self-indulgent way of saying writer, right?
I wouldn't be surprised if little writing was involved. Writing is pretty hard and I bet her thing goes as far as "ideation." The basic building blocks of plot, for example, or "we should have a scene where this happens." Then someone does the hard stuff like dialogue and making compelling characters.
 
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Judge Dredd

10 Gaschamber 20 GOTO 10
kiwifarms.net
Didn't they already do that with sad puppies? And the people involved basically said it was just a troll brigade, and gave secret awards out to the ones they think deserved it?
The Hugos died when Sad Puppies was successful at getting decent people on the ballet only for the final judges to give "No Award" to every category the SJWs didn't control. The VGAs have more prestige than the Hugos now.

The tabletop industry seemed to get in bed with the SJWs fast. It was fast enough that I think not many people noticed until after it was entrenched, but you don't have to dig very deep to find it permeating the industry.
Yes, but no, but maybe.

On the one hand, there's no shortage of SJW infestation, but on the other hand it's mostly limited to games no one gives a shit about and Wizards of the Coast.

The trouble with SJWs in tabletop is they might succeed at getting the websites or game companies to bend the knee, but ultimately playing the game requires getting real people in a room and sitting around the table. They will be told to fuck off or simply not invited back.
 

Goodbye Horses

Would you fuck me? I'd fuck me. I'd fuck me hard.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The tabletop industry seemed to get in bed with the SJWs fast. It was fast enough that I think not many people noticed until after it was entrenched, but you don't have to dig very deep to find it permeating the industry.
Not really, as White Wolf was patient zero of that particular poz infection and it started decades ago.
 
The trouble with SJWs in tabletop is they might succeed at getting the websites or game companies to bend the knee, but ultimately playing the game requires getting real people in a room and sitting around the table. They will be told to fuck off or simply not invited back.
You're right SJWs are just a small vocal minority, once their actions start affecting the bottom line of these companies one of two things will happen.
Either the companies pivot back to accommodating their actual customers who buy and promote their products.
Or their sales fall, profits disappear and someone else comes along to take their place.

These companies (assuming they are managed in a professional manner) are only chasing what they think the 'youth' want and have been mislead into thinking that is wokeness.
That'll change.
 

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