How do you cope with a narcissistic mother?

[The Crescent King]

The older I've gotten, the more I've come to terms with a hard to acknowledge reality: I don't like, love or respect my mother. I feel utterly cold and angry towards her. She is a person who was born without the capacity to feel happiness. For the over two decades I've known her she has never been happy. She was had few friends in her life (and currently has none), has never had any hobbies and has only began employed work in the last decade, so I have been the centre of her emotional life since I was born. When she began working I was the person she would confide in about every little drama she ever had and would expect support and advice on a level I didn't feel comfortable with as I couldn't understand her adult feelings as a child, but my comfort never entered her mind. It was almost as if I was her parent, as I would be the person she would run to with all her problems.

As long as I can remember my mother has been deeply introverted, extremely mercurial and lacking in confidence and self-esteem. She is prone to extreme rage and has shouted in my face many times and would hit me as a child. She pretends to want closeness with me, but never acknowledges my feelings if they are inconvenient to her agenda. For example, when I was working through my feelings of abandonment by my father, she would always try to downplay them as they triggered feelings of guilt in her. Whenever we argue I shut down and storm off, and when we come together again she forces a "kiss and make up" moment on me. She has never once sat me down to discuss anything substantial about our relationship or how to fix the communication in our relationship; any conversation like that has always been initiated by me. She is incapable of a sincere apology or emotional intimacy that isn't dependent on me enmeshing with her and capitulating to her unconditionally. She likes to be superior to others - she is ruthless when discussing her work colleagues for example, and constantly makes nasty comments about others, including family members. She digs incessantly about my physical appearance, such as commenting how my lips look like raw meat or how my breasts are too big for my frame, and she stares at them quite often like she's scrutinizing my figure. When I was a teenager her rages scared me and often reduced me to tears, and she would always blame me for any fights we had as I failed to communicate with her. As I've aged and started setting boundaries and communicating, her goalpost has shifted into "You're never happy with me, I can only do my best, you're always complaning, etc."

As a child I couldn't see through her at all, and genuinely thought she was my best friend. She has her good points, and my feelings of anger towards her have caused me guilt and shame, which is probably why this reality has taken me a decade to acknowledge. If I ever bring up a problem with her she downplays it by saying I do it to. She oscillates from being warm and praising me, telling me I'm her favourite person, to calling me an abuser, a gaslighter, that she's fed up with me. I've asked her to tell me what can I do in concrete terms to improve and she can't provide me with anything, despite the nasty names she calls me. During this particular conversation she admitted to being deeply lonely and miserable and blamed her behaviour on these feelings, but has made no effort to change how or she acts and still appears to be incapabale of seeing through herself (which is ironic given how critical she is of others). She's also deeply invested in New Age spirituality which to me seems like tomfoolery for utterly self-absorbed emotionally immature cranks, which I think she is.

We came home today from a trip to see family in my country's capital, and the experience has finally solidified feelings I've contained for years. I cannot keep going through this cycle our relationship being friendly and warm to episodes of explosive fighting on her part. I went clothes shopping with her and my uncle and she did everything she could to spoil it, either by rushing me, saying the clothes I want (not fast fashion) don't exist, that my tastes are too posh, that the prices are too high, that she was tired and menopausal etc. I spent one hour inside a single shop when I desperately need clothes (accompanied by much grumbling from her), yet spent 2-3 hours trapsing through shops for her when she already owns a mountain of clothes she never wears. She is only happy when she is the centre of attention. I had been looking forward to this trip for weeks so I was furious with her when she got home that evening, and flew into a rage when she made another dig about my eating habits to my uncle (she likes to monitor what I eat and quizzes me often as to whether I've ordered fast food that day, for example, or tuts and sighs if I buy chocolate). This morning she trotted out her usual rigmaroll of "I don't want to fight with her, give me a kiss and a hug" which I did as we were returning home in an hour and I needed to pack. When I got home she was very sweet, but when I tried to bring up her behaviour the mask dropped and the we descended into a screaming match, with her pinning all the blame for everything on me.

I can't go on like this, but I have nowhere else to go. I lost my job in September and rent is astronomical in my country. None of my friends live in my town and my other family live quite far away. There also no homeless services/emergency accomodation I could avail of either. I'm in my final year of college and planning to begin my MA next year and I am financially dependent on her until then, though I have been trying to find jobs since September and nothing has panned out. If any Kiwi has been in my situation, do you have any advice as to how to deal with a parent like this? I intend to go no - contact once I'm fully independent (working, own my own car, living away from home), but given the economic state of my country I'm not sure when that will be, but it won't be feasible at least until autumn of next year (I'm hoping to live with my uncle while doing my MA, so I will be away from her). I just don't know how much longer I can deal with this and I have no one else to turn to. If anyone can help I would really appreciate it.

 

[Cats]

Sorry you had to deal with that. I always tell people that I didn't deserve the mom I got. She is quite honestly the best and strongest person I know. I got lucky. I can't imagine what it must be like to grow up with bad parents...nobody deserves that.

If you need to vent about it some more just holler at me I will listen.

 

[rel=alternate]

That's a pretty big dump, but I feel you. My mom had a very similar experience growing up. Although she had siblings, and that made it quite different in some respect.

It took a very long time for my mom to come to terms with the fact that her own mom was not worth having in her life. She would constantly make her cry, bully her and then guilt trip her into agreeing it was her fault to begin with.

In the end, I think she only really truly forgave her when they had her in a medical room towards the end. She seemed to pass a cap at that point, at least to me.

Honestly, you're studying, getting a job should not be this complicated. It seems to me like you have a sound plan. Just get out of her grasp as soon as you can, make a life for yourself. Build self worth that does not rely on her approval.

Best of luck.

 

[HyperboreanRightsActivist]

You can't force a relationship to work.

Spoiler: Mommy issues

My mum ain't the best, but she's also not a monster. I am aware of what she's capable of, though.

I give her chances and immediately rescind them if she slips up or tries to take advantage of me. I haven't cut contact with her, but I know how to keep her at an arm's length.

OP, you're not a jerk for throwing in the towel after you've put in all that effort.

The economy sucks, I get it. Living on your own is a pain. But this was my advice to @Saddam Hussain Obama when he was having his bitchfit about living with an abusive mother, and this is my advice to you: MOVE OUT ASAP.

 

[Meursault's gun]

As long as you are financially dependent, you give them nothing to work with emotionally and avoid their presence physically. Run errands alone. Lock your door. Listen to music or wear earplugs. Just be home as little as possible.

You mentioned that this is a new revelation for you, so it will take time to get used to the idea of having an inherently faulty parent, especially when it is your mother. It is possible, though. Just takes time and detaching. When you start limiting her ability to be in your presence, you will start coming to terms with this entire situation, I trust.

Older narcs that are not looking for help on their own terms have next to no chance of getting better, best you can do for yourself is conserve your sanity. Think of the family or friends you'd like to surround yourself with. Move your sense of stability into the future, somewhere far detached from the chaos of present day.

 

[Cats]

As long as you are financially dependent, you give them nothing to work with emotionally and avoid their presence physically. Run errands alone. Lock your door. Listen to music or wear earplugs. Just be home as little as possible.

You of the opinion that nothing can be done to salvage a relationship with someone who has some kind of narcissistic personality disorder? I've never had to deal with anyone I cared about being like that, save for a few ex girlfriends but who cares about them. None of my family are like this so it's totally foreign to me. Is there nothing that can be done? It makes me sad to think of being forced to just cut out a family member :'[

 

[Billy Bob Dick]

Both of my parents were horrifically abusive. We were in a really fucked-up religious cult. So back in '99, I moved 2000+ miles away from my parents. I've kept my distance ever since.

If they want to have a relationship with me, they play by my rules. If they start shit over the phone, I hang up. If they start shit when I'm visiting, I call a cab or an Uber and leave immediately. At one point I went for over three years without so much as a text message to either one of them. At various times I have told both of them to go fuck themselves when the situation warranted. They got the message.

I deal with them on my terms, period, QED.

You need to put yourself in a position to do the same.

 

[Meursault's gun]

You of the opinion that nothing can be done to salvage a relationship with someone who has some kind of narcissistic personality disorder? I've never had to deal with anyone I cared about being like that, save for a few ex girlfriends but who cares about them. None of my family are like this so it's totally foreign to me. Is there nothing that can be done? It makes me sad to think of being forced to just cut out a family member :'[

NPD-type behavior and thinking patterns become the person. I have dealt with several such people myself. It may be hard to understand if you have not known them intimately, but they are dysfunction. Their reasoning is inherently warped and almost impossible to trace, because they lack self awareness to a horrifying degree. And when it is as such, having them realize that they are one big huge issue becomes next to impossible. You'd be saying that everything, from their good (OP's mom would probably think the love-bombing she does is positive) to their bad (everything else, which is entirely in line with narc shit), is dysfunctional. Accepting that you have an addiction issue, for example, is pretty difficult; imagine if the issue was basically everything about you.

The literal only way I could imagine salvaging such a relationship would be for the narcissist to willingly seek help and follow through with it (indefinitely, maybe). However, narcissists are infamous for not being able to be able to introspect effectively. Even if they do, they will likely only reach conclusions that favor them. Many just straight up manipulate the therapists they go to.

It is a genuinely scary issue to have, but they don't know this. Only we do.

 

[Pine Tar]

You tell her to go fuck herself multiple times after being berated one time too many.

Ever since I did that, I’ve had a great relationship with my stepmother. But maybe my case was more “egotist doing her best” instead of “actual clinical narcissist”. The latter? Stay the fuck away from them, they’ll suck the life out of you.

 

[Not Who You Think]

If any Kiwi has been in my situation, do you have any advice as to how to deal with a parent like this?

Your mother seems to be emotionally stunted, resulting in very shallow/fickle emotional states. It is never a good sign when children have to manage their parent's emotions. Working toward independence is an excellent idea since it provides focus on a solution rather than ruminating on the problem.

If you don't mind, could you describe what your mother's relationship with her own mother was like?

 

[The Crescent King]

Your mother seems to be emotionally stunted, resulting in very shallow/fickle emotional states. It is never a good sign when children have to manage their parent's emotions. Working toward independence is an excellent idea since it provides focus on a solution rather than ruminating on the problem.

If you don't mind, could you describe what your mother's relationship with her own mother was like?

My mother is greatly resentful and angry towards her own mother, to a degree I feel is unwarranted.

For background, my mother was raised in a hoarding situation with a neglectful, occassionally violent father and my nan. I have a good relationship with my grandmother; she is a typical Boomer in the sense that she has both the virtues and flaws you would associate with that generation. She is incredibly industrious, endures hardship without complaint and can be sincerely warm in a way my mother can't. She can also be overbearing, very much has a "grin and bear it" mentality if you're facing a problem and isn't always the most sensitive. She's also not very indulgent in emotional whims and can be quite stoic, though I know she has some emotional issues from her marriage AND her own father was a violent alcoholic.

When my mother discusses her childhood she does mention how hard my grandmother worked to support the family and how she tried to shield her children in the best way she could. Catholic Ireland wasn't the easiest place to be a woman, and when my nan confided in the parish priest about her marriage she was told to go home and endure it as divorce was a sin (and illegal). However, my mother has said that my nan worked too much and wasn't emotionally present in the way she wanted, and that my grandmother encouraged her to be more outgoing in a way she found shaming. In fact my mother is quite neutral towards her father but has a real seething resentment towards her mother, all centered around how she wasn't considerate towards my mother's feelings. My nan was also unhappy when my mother became pregnant out of wedlock but did come around to the idea, a fact my mother holds against her to this day. My mother has told me that she doesn't like her mother and blames her for all her emotional dysfunction. In fact I feel she has gone out of her way to sabotage my own relationship with my grandmother; she subtly tries to triangulate me against her when the two of them argue, and often pleads with me to not discuss any of the troubles between myself and my mother with her.

My grandmother has her flaws, but she has been a good intermediary between my mother and I when I've asked her to be. She has never dumped her feelings onto me the way my mother does, and I feel we have a more normal familial relationship than I do with my mother. We're not as close as I would like, but I do think my mother has a hand in that to some degree. I've urged my mother to be more compassionate towards my grandmother as she's endured quite a bit of abuse in her life and has never let it embitter her against the world, but my words fall on deaf ears. My mother can be quite two-faced; I've told my nan some of the things my mam has said about her over the years and she's been quite surprised and baffled at why my mother is telling me all of her childhood resentments. I even discussed with her my disastrous trip with my mother and she was again surprised as my mother was putting on a very happy go lucky front, which I quickly shattered when my mother was gone for a few minutes. My nan then asked my mother some probing questions, asking if we really were fine, which tipped my mother off that I had spoken to her and lead to the argument we had tonight.

Personally, I think my mother's greatest issue with her mother is that my nan won't endlessly indulge her, and my mother would rather stew in that negativity than ever fix it. My mother likes to be a victim, and my grandmother's "insensitivity" is perfect for that.

 

[Apochrypha]

I'm lucky that I have an amazing Mom. My Maternal Grandmother, however, was a raging narcissist and was horrible to my Mother. To this day she's still a bitter lonely woman who is very passive-aggressive towards my Mother, it drives my family insane. My Mom just deals with it by treating her like an afterthought and it's worked pretty well over the years. She's isn't cruel to her back, she just ignores her and moves on. It is what it is.

There comes a point when you realize that no matter what you do or say, a narcissist will never be satisfied unless you play into their need for drama. Just don't give into them and don't indulge their behavior. See them for what they are; pathetic.

 

[Cats]

NPD-type behavior and thinking patterns become the person. I have dealt with several such people myself. It may be hard to understand if you have not known them intimately, but they are dysfunction. Their reasoning is inherently warped and almost impossible to trace, because they lack self awareness to a horrifying degree. And when it is as such, having them realize that they are one big huge issue becomes next to impossible. You'd be saying that everything, from their good (OP's mom would probably think the love-bombing she does is positive) to their bad (everything else, which is entirely in line with narc shit), is dysfunctional. Accepting that you have an addiction issue, for example, is pretty difficult; imagine if the issue was basically everything about you.

The literal only way I could imagine salvaging such a relationship would be for the narcissist to willingly seek help and follow through with it (indefinitely, maybe). However, narcissists are infamous for not being able to be able to introspect effectively. Even if they do, they will likely only reach conclusions that favor them. Many just straight up manipulate the therapists they go to.

It is a genuinely scary issue to have, but they don't know this. Only we do.

I worked in the state prison system here in Texas for ten years, so I know all about that type of behavior. Until you described it though I never really put two and two together and thought about just how much more painful and difficult it would be to handle when it was coming from someone you loved. With the job I couldn't give a rat's ass who said or did what. It was all like water off of a duck's back. But trying to think about a loved one (a real loved one, like family) trying to manipulate and use those kind of tactics like that is pretty scary. I can't imagine how hard that must have been to experience as a child coming from the one person you rely on the most. kind of gives the words "unstable childhood" a whole new dimension

 

[SandyCat]

I'm in a somewhat similar situation, not as bad as yours but within the same rough ballpark. My mom lives with me and I don't have the heart to give her the boot because she can't work anymore due to injury. Lots of boundary issues that makes me miserable some days because of her antics

Some simplified advice my therapist gave me (she's a good therapist, shes been doing it for decades. Not one of those shitty "muh mentals" pozzed new-school therapists):
- You can't change other people, especially people who don't feel the need to change. You can only focus on what you can do for yourself

- Focus on what you do have control over and what you can do to better your own situation. In your case doing what ever you need to do to get a job and save up enough money to get out of your situation to cut those people from your life is a good goal you can work towards that can eventually turn into a potential solution to your problems.

- If someone refuses to respect your boundaries you can form strategies around dealing with the person. For example avoiding them when ever possible, the less you're around them the less you're dealing with their shit. Better to avoid them some of the time than none of the time, assuming avoidance doesn't make things worse of course (depends on the abuser). Someone's physically violent? Form an escape plan; keep in mind where the nearest exits are and remember the shortest path to get to them.
Analyze how they act to see what aggravates them and what placates them to see if you can use any of that to your advantage. Just be careful with what you try, you don't want to do anything brash that could unintentionally make things worse and you also don't want to just take their bullshit 24/7 unimpeded. Gotta experiment to see what does and doesn't work. I wish I could give more examples but it really depends on your individual situation.

- Lastly don't blame yourself for their issues. A lot of people do and that can really fuck them up mentally over their lifetime whether they realize it or not.

Kind of vague advice but it has genuinely helped me at least. Especially the forming strategies to deal with people who don't respect your boundaries part.

 

[Not Who You Think]

My mother is greatly resentful and angry towards her own mother, to a degree I feel is unwarranted.

Your nan falling for a man similar to her own father has a certain logic to it. She sounds like the scapegoat for both her parents as well as her daughter (resulting in the stoic outlook you described). This role (being a scapegoat) is something you are likely to inherit from your nan. Not necessarily because of who your nan is, but because of your mother who needs one. This is also likely why you have such a strong connection with your nan.

To put it another way, you were parentified by your mother because, in a sense, she sees you and your nan in the same way.

Your mother seems to have chosen to define herself by her insecurities. This insecurity will ensure that she will never have enough love/attention. Consequently, she will project both strength (being critical of others) and weakness (need for indulgence) to get what she wants from people, but mostly in a negative context. This is because it seems natural to her that the love/attention she craves comes at the expense of others. However, when love/attention is at your mother's expense (perceived or actual) it seems backward to her and she takes severe offense. This can make her naturally self-indulgent and might explain why she hurts you so often (even at times when she might not mean to).

Given her approximate age, your mother is unlikely to change. Making peace with this will help you weather the storm until you gain independence. Otherwise, you may risk inheriting some of your own mother's traits (hating your own mother for example) and passing them on to the next generation. In this instance, learning to not hate your mother is more for your benefit than hers. This will enable you to eventually leave you mother and the associated baggage behind. Physical distance is only part of the battle ahead.

I can't say much more without further details, but I encourage you to bond with your nan over this in the spirit of understanding your mother better (so that you don't turn your mother into something of a scapegoat herself and adopt her traits).

I hope this helps.

 

[Aiōn]

For dealing with narcissists in general: A relationship with a narcissist is based on deception and coercion. If you aren’t careful, coercion can lead to emulation (narcissism by proxy) so awareness is key. In my personal experience, learning about techniques that are frequently employed so you can recognize when something is unhealthy may prove useful.

Try to remain calm and rational as much as possible, no matter how much they try to provoke you. Emotional reactions are their narcissistic supply and will be used against you later.

Narcissism can run in families, I believe with a 50% chance so by the sound of things, you are all the lucky ones. If you were raised by a narcissist, it is important to take the time to heal yourself from the mistreatment that you faced. You survived and you should be proud of that.

 

[Flaming_Barghast]

You of the opinion that nothing can be done to salvage a relationship with someone who has some kind of narcissistic personality disorder? I've never had to deal with anyone I cared about being like that, save for a few ex girlfriends but who cares about them. None of my family are like this so it's totally foreign to me. Is there nothing that can be done? It makes me sad to think of being forced to just cut out a family member :'[

Have npd family, no. It's like BPD, they don't see anything wrong, no matter how much you point out the obvious. It doesn't matter that they hurt you, or you aren't happy.
Their relationship is transactional. You being her daughter means she doesn't see you as your own person, she sees you as an extension of herself. I understand how you feel, however you are basically begging to keep someone in your life that wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. Instead they would scream that the heat was hurting them and that it's all your fault for burning, you deserve your pain, etc etc.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Ireland

First and foremost: my condolences for living in a communist shithole.

Your relationship is not salvageable and you already have the answer to your question: you have to tough it out until you are independent enough to leave. My suggestion is that you find a local Al-Anon support group, which should not be hard given you're in Ireland, and learn how to face your mother's shitty behavior head-on. My mother is not as intolerable as yours, but she does do some really selfish, immature shit sometimes and I learned not to take it personally. It's how she is and it's how she's going to be. I accept it and roll with the punches.

You do not want to detach from it because detachment is a fucking horrible coping mechanism.

The Serenity Prayer is very relevant here:

God, grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change
the courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Accepting your mother's behavior will make it a hell of a lot easier to treat it like water off a duck's back.

 

[Double Taps]

That's rough, and I know the feelings all too well.

Someone mentioned it here; not giving her a compromised emotional response will help you more in the long run mentally. One thing that helped me during dysfunctional instances was thinking back to more fonder moments of when my relatives weren't abject retards, this also showed me where my autism and intrusive thoughts stem from.

It seems like she ruminates on that childhood trauma on a regular basis and takes it out on you, otherwise it would be strangers in passing if she has nobody else close that will listen to her bullshit. You mentioned her being neutral about her dad but I wonder just how much or maybe a lack of authority allowed her attitude to manifest like this, or even with how your father had to deal with these outbursts. Dont feel obligated to respond, I dont mean to pry, it's just something that seems to stick out to me.

Try to fill up your daily schedule so you dont have to interact with her as much. Get a part time job at McDonalds or like a grocery store doing mundane work for 16 hours or so a week so you can supplement suffering with a vice/hobby. Alternatively, do some volunteering and try helping other people in worse ruts, possibly build networks with other volunteers that might do you a favor in the future.

Prayers to the kiwis enduring.

 

[Iron Jaguar]

I certainly understand that you feel like you're financially dependent but my advice is that you find a way out now. You are only causing yourself more harm by staying in an abusive and toxic relationship.
In any case, whenever you do move on, set very firm rules about what behaviour you'll permit her to engage in with you. And here's a bit of truth: Just because you are related to someone does not mean you have to eat their shit. Some people are so toxic that you are far better off to simply cut them out of your life completely. I have done it myself and the moment I made the decision to do so it felt like a literal weight had been lifted from my shoulders. Many people would be a lot happier if they chose to cut toxic relatives out of their lives.