Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

Tanner Glass

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Eh I disagree in my view the biggest issue with comics is they've largely abandoned the child market.

Comics used to be all ages but ever since the 90s kids have been steadily pushed out in favor of adult collectors and pretentious hipsters * and as a consequence comics have been forced into specialized hobby shops an endangered species in this modern digital age where you can buy almost anything from Amazon *.

My LCS brought this up, parents regularly come in saying their kid likes superheroes and they're looking for a comic and he can't recommend anything on the shelf because it's all targeted towards older folks.

I think the price issue is very overstated a pack of trading cards cost the same as an issue of Spider-Man and MTG is booming for Hasbro last I heard.

Manga and paperbacks are still selling as well so I don't think it's a "print is obsolete" issue like with newspapers either.
I'd still put that on writing - it's hard, but certainly not impossible to write a story with all ages appeal or even different things for different audiences. I'd argue that a lot of current comics are appealing to neither children or adults, but that children are more impacted by the incredibly long continuity that some comics try and keep held together.

However, you're right that they can't even run a kid's comic for kids anymore - fucking GI Joe of all things is this quasi political nonsense and I can't imagine that there's much subtlety there for adults. I haven't read any of it but just on the premise (The GI Joes are rebels and they're rebelling against the tyrannical government controlled by COBRA screams "writer's opinion of the 2016 election" to me) it sounds awful for all ages.

I don't think price is an issue and I don't think "print is dead", but I do think a huge availability of cheaper and easier to get entertainment isn't helping the comic book industry at all. I think that you're right that if a child walks into a comic shop with $4 the last thing he would likely buy would be a comic and that's a pretty large problem. I think comic shops already have a really hard time getting people into their stores but not having much to recommend once someone does wander it and most comic stores near me that survived became something "other" than comic book stores. Most of them have half the store dedicated to comic-related merch, some of them are comic/WOTC stores (D&D and MTG), some of them are comic/video game stores, one of them became a fucking comic shop/lawyer's office/public notary - it's wild what some of them have to do to survive.

Manga doing well only tells me that if you put a decent product out there, people will buy it. I personally think that Manga is handled much better than comics because they don't do nearly as much canonical nonsense - they're all (comparability) straight forward stories that go from #1 all the way to #current issue. There aren't many wacky reboots, no variant cover nonsense, not many canonical cross overs or full universe realignments, etc. The art and writing is usually much more consistent and you much less frequently get writer change storylines that consist of "forget all that shit from the last 12 issues, this is the new shit now" type drastic changes.
 
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RodgerDodger

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Eh I disagree in my view the biggest issue with comics is they've largely abandoned the child market.

Comics used to be all ages but ever since the 90s kids have been steadily pushed out in favor of adult collectors and pretentious hipsters * and as a consequence comics have been forced into specialized hobby shops an endangered species in this modern digital age where you can buy almost anything from Amazon *.

My LCS brought this up, parents regularly come in saying their kid likes superheroes and they're looking for a comic and he can't recommend anything on the shelf because it's all targeted towards older folks.

I think the price issue is very overstated a pack of trading cards cost the same as an issue of Spider-Man and MTG is booming for Hasbro last I heard.

Manga and paperbacks are still selling as well so I don't think it's a "print is obsolete" issue like with newspapers either.
This! But it comes from a deeper problem. Look at the old classic comic creators. The ones that wrote the stories we all really remember. They were all by and large family men living in New York Suburbs. They went home every night to their wife and kids. Children were the most important element of their worlds. And they told their stories to and for their kids. They had the needed perspective.

Now look at modern "creatives". Ya Boi Zack said it best when he labeled them "Childless Weirdo's". They are bereft of family and bereft of any actual (non creepy) contact with children. Instead the only child they write for is the eternal child that is themselves. And this isn't limited to comics. Look at what passes for animation or cartoons these days. It's watching somebody write a childrens show who has never met an actual child. And is instead writing for some imagined intersectional feminist fantasy of what a child is. And they wonder why they are failing. They almost universally lack the prerequisite basic life skills to be a success in their creative fields. They walled themselves off from actual humanity and then wonder why nobody wants to read their drivel.
 

Water-T

Zach made me clean the shower with my mouth again
True & Honest Fan
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However, you're right that they can't even run a kid's comic for kids anymore - fucking GI Joe of all things is this quasi political nonsense and I can't imagine that there's much subtlety there for adults. I haven't read any of it but just on the premise (The GI Joes are rebels and they're rebelling against the tyrannical government controlled by COBRA screams "writer's opinion of the 2016 election" to me) it sounds awful for all ages.
GI Joe has always been two things:

1) a way to sell toys

2) a bunch of over muscled men and sexy ladies shooting at the bad guys and winning by the end of the episode/comic.

It's not been deep and will never be deep, and yet all these NPCs come in and think that inserting their treatise about how Joe vs Cobra is a metaphor for the working class vs. the 1% is just what the series needed, then do the Surprised Pikachu Face when fans hate it.

Yes, Larry Hama did put some political elements into the comic, but at least he had first hand military experience, was a good writer, and wasn't ham handed about it. The cartoon, on the other hand, was as political as a wet fart, and claiming otherwise is just disingenuous.

By all means, if there is a good story about war and politics out there to be made into a comic, I more than welcome it. But for fucks' sake, get a better writer than Aubrey Sitterson on it and don't ride the coattails of an established IP.
 

CheezzyMach

Hulkamania Brother!
kiwifarms.net
I'd still put that on writing - it's hard, but certainly not impossible to write a story with all ages appeal or even different things for different audiences. I'd argue that a lot of current comics are appealing to neither children or adults, but that children are more impacted by the incredibly long continuity that some comics try and keep held together.

However, you're right that they can't even run a kid's comic for kids anymore - fucking GI Joe of all things is this quasi political nonsense and I can't imagine that there's much subtlety there for adults. I haven't read any of it but just on the premise (The GI Joes are rebels and they're rebelling against the tyrannical government controlled by COBRA screams "writer's opinion of the 2016 election" to me) it sounds awful for all ages.

I don't think price is an issue and I don't think "print is dead", but I do think a huge availability of cheaper and easier to get entertainment isn't helping the comic book industry at all. I think that you're right that if a child walks into a comic shop with $4 the last thing he would likely buy would be a comic and that's a pretty large problem. I think comic shops already have a really hard time getting people into their stores but not having much to recommend once someone does wander it and most comic stores near me that survived became something "other" than comic book stores. Most of them have half the store dedicated to comic-related merch, some of them are comic/WOTC stores (D&D and MTG), some of them are comic/video game stores, one of them became a fucking comic shop/lawyer's office/public notary - it's wild what some of them have to do to survive.

Manga doing well only tells me that if you put a decent product out there, people will buy it. I personally think that Manga is handled much better than comics because they don't do nearly as much canonical nonsense - they're all (comparability) straight forward stories that go from #1 all the way to #current issue. There aren't many wacky reboots, no variant cover nonsense, not many canonical cross overs or full universe realignments, etc. The art and writing is usually much more consistent and you much less frequently get writer change storylines that consist of "forget all that shit from the last 12 issues, this is the new shit now" type drastic changes.
This! But it comes from a deeper problem. Look at the old classic comic creators. The ones that wrote the stories we all really remember. They were all by and large family men living in New York Suburbs. They went home every night to their wife and kids. Children were the most important element of their worlds. And they told their stories to and for their kids. They had the needed perspective.

Now look at modern "creatives". Ya Boi Zack said it best when he labeled them "Childless Weirdo's". They are bereft of family and bereft of any actual (non creepy) contact with children. Instead the only child they write for is the eternal child that is themselves. And this isn't limited to comics. Look at what passes for animation or cartoons these days. It's watching somebody write a childrens show who has never met an actual child. And is instead writing for some imagined intersectional feminist fantasy of what a child is. And they wonder why they are failing. They almost universally lack the prerequisite basic life skills to be a success in their creative fields. They walled themselves off from actual humanity and then wonder why nobody wants to read their drivel.
To me Boom's Power Rangers comic * MMPR 40# * I just read perfectly shows this.

The Rangers came off as whiny and the tumbleresc artwork made the "serious" tone they were trying for laughable. Same with IDW's Transformers where the autobots are genocidal racists and Optimus Prime is portrayed as useless.

What kind of kid wants to read this shit?

What parent is going to want to give their kid a comic where Lady Thor bitches about "mansplaining" for 20 pages or the Hulk exalts the virtues of troonism?

Who are these comics for? Because they sure as hell aren't for kids.
 

AnOminous

Really?
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
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Writing a "good" comic is nearly impossible in this day and age - any existing character comes with piles of lore baggage piled up across a number of years (Superman came out in 1939 for example) and comes saddled with demands/conditions from numerous people in the company - sometimes multiple different committees about what that character can and can not do. These restrictions are usually super heavy and make an already hard task nearly impossible.
There are people like Alan Moore who could do it even with lore baggage, or could get away with just doing whatever the fuck they liked anyway and telling the suits to go fuck themselves and they'd put up with it because when they did, they got a nice fat pile of money for doing so.

Now they're actively hostile to money and I don't think even an Alan Moore could manage to exist in the current field. Even the actual Alan Moore ultimately became so thoroughly disgusted he couldn't deal with these shitty people any more, no matter what the price.

Comics used to be all ages but ever since the 90s kids have been steadily pushed out in favor of adult collectors and pretentious hipsters *
Hipsters are cancerous garbage and the minute a franchise starts catering to these johnny-come-lately scumwads, it turns to shit. And hipsters just flit off to something else anyway, having the attention span of gnats and only liking things ironically. I'd say they're even worse than SJWs but they're often also SJWs. Fuck these soybeards.

Who are these comics for? Because they sure as hell aren't for kids.
They're for the people who write them so they can pretend to be "creative" while actually being maggots gnawing on the corpse of what used to be a product of creativity.
 

CheezzyMach

Hulkamania Brother!
kiwifarms.net
There are people like Alan Moore who could do it even with lore baggage, or could get away with just doing whatever the fuck they liked anyway and telling the suits to go fuck themselves and they'd put up with it because when they did, they got a nice fat pile of money for doing so.

Now they're actively hostile to money and I don't think even an Alan Moore could manage to exist in the current field. Even the actual Alan Moore ultimately became so thoroughly disgusted he couldn't deal with these shitty people any more, no matter what the price.



Hipsters are cancerous garbage and the minute a franchise starts catering to these johnny-come-lately scumwads, it turns to shit. And hipsters just flit off to something else anyway, having the attention span of gnats and only liking things ironically. I'd say they're even worse than SJWs but they're often also SJWs. Fuck these soybeards.



They're for the people who write them so they can pretend to be "creative" while actually being maggots gnawing on the corpse of what used to be a product of creativity.
Hopefully Lootcrate dying is a sign that hipster nerd culture is finally dying and nerdy shit like comics can go back to being for fans like 10 years ago.

I just hope Marvel and DC can shake off the grim reaper and survive the cancer.
 

$MY_COCK

DOLLAR DOLLAR BILL, Y’ALL
kiwifarms.net
They're for the people who write them so they can pretend to be "creative" while actually being maggots gnawing on the corpse of what used to be a product of creativity.
Also, it’s that whole “long march through the institutions” these fags are into. The hope is that if you infect comics with propaganda, it will move on to movies based on the comics. That is the jackpot, comics are just a means to an end.
 

AnOminous

Really?
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Retired Staff
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Also, it’s that whole “long march through the institutions” these fags are into. The hope is that if you infect comics with propaganda, it will move on to movies based on the comics. That is the jackpot, comics are just a means to an end.
So far this hasn't really happened. They're treating these comics as just something so they can keep saying the characters are "used in commerce" and keep their trademarks alive, since three years of nonuse creates a strong argument the mark has been abandoned.

It would be less embarrassing if they did it by just releasing Funko Pops or some shit.
 

Agent Wet

Trash
kiwifarms.net
Now they're actively hostile to money and I don't think even an Alan Moore could manage to exist in the current field. Even the actual Alan Moore ultimately became so thoroughly disgusted he couldn't deal with these shitty people any more, no matter what the price.
Is there a source of Alan saying something like that not saying I don't believe you just curious.

Who are these comics for? Because they sure as hell aren't for kids.
The comics are made for themselves and the people who is in their group for mental masterbating material to huff their own farts on.

Also, it’s that whole “long march through the institutions” these fags are into. The hope is that if you infect comics with propaganda, it will move on to movies based on the comics. That is the jackpot, comics are just a means to an end.
It is pretty sad look at the medium these days when people just see it as a stepping stone and nothing else. Then again what incentive do you have to make comics for a living especially working at Marvel and DC other than resume fodder to look impressive.
 

AnOminous

Really?
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
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Is there a source of Alan saying something like that not saying I don't believe you just curious.
I don't know but his attitude seems to speak for itself. He has nothing but good to say about his previous collaborators but absolutely nothing good to say about DC.
 
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Uranus Pink

kiwifarms.net
No, even the big 2 doesn't have a solution.

In fact, there are 2 instances in time that the Big 2 were warned in advance in what is happening to the comics industry, 1st is the 90s comic industry crash that almost shut the Big 2's doors, 2nd was the early 2000's with the anime boom, started by Gundam Wing. Instead of having some self-reflection, the big 2 doubled down and started to fleece the comic book collectors to increase money and sales.

PS. I love the fact, that one of Marvel's trend-chasing gimmick was manga marvel (when their artists are shit at manga, they could legitimately hire manga artists to make comics for them), and now trying to attach themselves on the AOTS like AoT.
For Marvel to be a Johnny-Come-Lately in manga is particularly amusing as they could have been one of the earliest publishers of manga in North America if they had done more than just Akira and iirc part of the Memories manga. But alas for them Marvel decided not to continue doing manga and barely doing any animesque stuff which was more of artist(s) just doing their job under the Corp. Exe. radar.
 

Marco Fucko

I fantasized about this back in Chicago
True & Honest Fan
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Holy shit Doug is a sped. Fuck off with your sanctimonious Christfag bullshit. I agree wholeheartedly with EvS saying other people can't risk their livelihoods in current year to grand stand about salvation, even if his EWJ comment comes off as catty.
 
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Jerkov

kiwifarms.net
Evs and doug is on nick's stream, This is going going to be good lol.
I haven't followed comics gate but I'm watching this and these guys both seem like morons to me. Doug sounds like a stupid old boomer christfag who is willing to let Jesus ruin his movement and friendships. EVS is either a closeted SJW or such a spineless fuck that he's willing to bend to SJW whining so much that it becomes part of his movement.

Both are letting their own dumbass personal beliefs get in the way of them doing business and furthering their movement by trying to brand their movement to those abrasive, divisive beliefs.
 

Uranus Pink

kiwifarms.net
That's fine, but why force that label on the whole movement?
Lost me here as I stopped watching EVS and the High Council videos a long time ago.

What Doug doesn't seem to realize is that Mike saying something corny like "PRIDE IS A SIN" is just SJW rhetoric back when it was the right trying to be the moral puritans.
Part of the right with everyone else to the right of Marx been telling them to STFU for over 20 years now.
 
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$MY_COCK

DOLLAR DOLLAR BILL, Y’ALL
kiwifarms.net
So far this hasn't really happened. They're treating these comics as just something so they can keep saying the characters are "used in commerce" and keep their trademarks alive, since three years of nonuse creates a strong argument the mark has been abandoned.

It would be less embarrassing if they did it by just releasing Funko Pops or some shit.
Marvel is going to make the female Thor movie out of pure ideology. It’s gonna be great. Just great.

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