Infected #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

AnOminous

do you see what happens
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
Why the hell do they keep hiring these talentless weirdos? They don't make money, Marvel. Hire someone who makes money and fire the person who hired Quinn.
If you're Marvel, you can pick some worthless SJW piece of shit who couldn't sell water in the Sahara Desert, or some worthless SJW piece of shit named Zoe who couldn't sell water in the Sahara Desert. But if you picked Zoe you'd get your dick sucked.

Easy choice, if you're a soy boy at Marvel.
 

Garm

kiwifarms.net
Just Some Guy responded to Big Baby, and it is Glorious!


I wonder if this incident somehow makes its way into the Meyer v Waid case? It certainly shows Waid once again throwing around some pretty clear defamatory remarks with reckless disregard for not simply the truth, but reality itself.
How did this comic even get printed? I wouldn't be surprised if Waid decided to use the Waffen SS symbols for his hero group. There is no self awareness in this comic.

And Meyer sent the Facebook post to his lawyer for the reasons you point out.
 

Sharzod_the_Boov

Boy-Boy-Girl
kiwifarms.net
Hi. Late and Gay. I'll be taking a look this thread.

I've been checking out Comicsgate stuff lately. Do any of these guys have a solution to the "Status Quo is God" problem that corporate comics have? What is the point of having epic storylines if they don't actually change anything?
I’ve been following this quite closely (since Ya Boi’s channel blew up in EARLY 2018). I can say that this isn’t something you can just “dip your toe into”.
 
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CheezzyMach

Superior Tentacle Rapist
kiwifarms.net
More likely is that Zoe Quinn has an extensive web of connections, as proven in Goobergalten, and she used them to get her a nepotism hire at Marvel Comics.
Just as likely that she's just desperate for cash and will thus work for the peanuts Marvel pays it's employees TBH.

HULK SMASH PUNY BAT-MAN-MAN!"

Sorry, had to.....


But yeah, it's shocking that in the last 3 years DC has gone from "May be able to survive once Marvel finishes woking itself to death" to treading water in the open ocean along with Marvel hoping he can at least have the satisfaction of drowning SECOND.
TBH I kinda doubt that, I looked up sales figures recently and Marvel accounts for 41% of all comic book sales DC is 2nd place with about 26%.

I'm starting to think if the industry does collapse Marvel will be the last one standing.
 
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Jub-Jub

kiwifarms.net
there's no attempt, for example, to restore the 10% reduction Diamond applies to returnable comics (seen with asterisks in our charts), or eliminate comics known to have been sent to non-retail outlets like Loot Crate.
Comicchron saved themselves a bunch of work https://kiwifarms.net/threads/loot-crate-files-for-bankruptcy-and-lays-off-workers-but-promises-to-ship-remaining-boxes.59619/
I forgot, I do keep an Excel sheet to keep track of Batman's sales:
View attachment 888893
Looking at the prices, it stays $3 until #50 where it's bumped up to $5 due to hype and afterwards the new price is $4. Was their any reason why #75 was bumped up to $5?

The top 10 price points got me interested so i checked out averages for the past 19 months
1565767620207.png
 

damian

Not *cough* Zack.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Speaking of which, how are those Bendis books doing?
I havent updated it in a while, get back to you on it later.

Was their any reason why #75 was bumped up to $5?
They always bump up the price every 25 issues, legacy pricing. Just check the prices for Issue #25 in DC, they get a price and page bump.
 

Garm

kiwifarms.net
I’ve been following this quite closely (since Ya Boi’s channel blew up in EARLY 2018). I can say that this isn’t something you can just “dip your toe into”.
I will see how deep I get into this. It seems like comics have deeper structural problems than simply SJW's are writing them. But this may well ensnare me.
 
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Adamska

Last Gunman
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I will see how deep I get into this. It seems like comics have deeper structural problems than simply SJW's are writing them. But this may well ensnare me.
The biggest problems to me are the following:

1. Too many books; a lot of the bigger heroes get like 3-5 fucking books a month, and if you want to tell epic stories, you're expecting people to actually deal with this shit. It makes the bar higher to get into comics.
2. Who gives a shit about this guy; stop making or forcing books that don't sell. No matter how hard you try, you aren't gonna make Captain Marvel or whatever B/C lister a new A lister. You're just wasting money, paper, and contractors' time.
3. Limited distribution to common markets; basically, you're only finding them at hobby stores, and you won't really find comics at say a bigger super store, magazine shops, or any other common vectors where print media sell.
4. Price; bitch I ain't paying 5 bucks for a floppie. I would and do pay 25 for actual trade books or longer novellas, because I get more content and my book tends to last longer. I legitimately love my old essentials books for this reason, though I'll admit I'd prefer my stuff to be like 20 or so usually.
5. Noncommitment. Either keep to being episodic or go longform with growth and shit; don't do that half-ass this shit and retcon it to keep status quo to try and boost sales you pigfuckers.

There's others, but these are the most obvious flaws to me.
 

huckbeine

Summer is coming
kiwifarms.net
Hi. Late and Gay. I'll be taking a look this thread.

I've been checking out Comicsgate stuff lately. Do any of these guys have a solution to the "Status Quo is God" problem that corporate comics have? What is the point of having epic storylines if they don't actually change anything?
No, even the big 2 doesn't have a solution.

In fact, there are 2 instances in time that the Big 2 were warned in advance in what is happening to the comics industry, 1st is the 90s comic industry crash that almost shut the Big 2's doors, 2nd was the early 2000's with the anime boom, started by Gundam Wing. Instead of having some self-reflection, the big 2 doubled down and started to fleece the comic book collectors to increase money and sales.

PS. I love the fact, that one of Marvel's trend-chasing gimmick was manga marvel (when their artists are shit at manga, they could legitimately hire manga artists to make comics for them), and now trying to attach themselves on the AOTS like AoT.
 

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Garm

kiwifarms.net
The biggest problems to me are the following:

1. Too many books; a lot of the bigger heroes get like 3-5 fucking books a month, and if you want to tell epic stories, you're expecting people to actually deal with this shit. It makes the bar higher to get into comics.
2. Who gives a shit about this guy; stop making or forcing books that don't sell. No matter how hard you try, you aren't gonna make Captain Marvel or whatever B/C lister a new A lister. You're just wasting money, paper, and contractors' time.
3. Limited distribution to common markets; basically, you're only finding them at hobby stores, and you won't really find comics at say a bigger super store, magazine shops, or any other common vectors where print media sell.
4. Price; bitch I ain't paying 5 bucks for a floppie. I would and do pay 25 for actual trade books or longer novellas, because I get more content and my book tends to last longer. I legitimately love my old essentials books for this reason, though I'll admit I'd prefer my stuff to be like 20 or so usually.
5. Noncommitment. Either keep to being episodic or go longform with growth and shit; don't do that half-ass this shit and retcon it to keep status quo to try and boost sales you pigfuckers.

There's others, but these are the most obvious flaws to me.
No, even the big 2 doesn't have a solution.

In fact, there are 2 instances in time that the Big 2 were warned in advance in what is happening to the comics industry, 1st is the 90s comic industry crash that almost shut the Big 2's doors, 2nd was the early 2000's with the anime boom, started by Gundam Wing. Instead of having some self-reflection, the big 2 doubled down and started to fleece the comic book collectors to increase money and sales.

PS. I love the fact, that one of Marvel's trend-chasing gimmick was manga marvel (when their artists are shit at manga, they could legitimately hire manga artists to make comics for them), and now trying to attach themselves on the AOTS like AoT.
I think part of the solution would be to allow the characters to age and eventually retire. If Magneto's back story is still him being a Holocaust survivor, he should be pushing 90 by now. He's survived alien invasions and fighting Apocalypse. Magneto should be going "I've seen some weird shit in my time. I've rethought some stuff."

I want growth in the characters is my point.

Most of my problems are the same as Brian Clevingers. (http://www.atomic-robo.com/about)
 

Tanner Glass

kiwifarms.net
I think part of the solution would be to allow the characters to age and eventually retire. If Magneto's back story is still him being a Holocaust survivor, he should be pushing 90 by now. He's survived alien invasions and fighting Apocalypse. Magneto should be going "I've seen some weird shit in my time. I've rethought some stuff."

I want growth in the characters is my point.

Most of my problems are the same as Brian Clevingers. (http://www.atomic-robo.com/about)
The main, #1 problem with comics right now is that it simply isn't an industry that draws in talent and arguably never was.

Writing a "good" comic is nearly impossible in this day and age - any existing character comes with piles of lore baggage piled up across a number of years (Superman came out in 1939 for example) and comes saddled with demands/conditions from numerous people in the company - sometimes multiple different committees about what that character can and can not do. These restrictions are usually super heavy and make an already hard task nearly impossible.

Sure, a talented writer could, possibly, jump through all of the hoops and still create an entertaining story. It has been done a few times before but ultimately there isn't much money in it. Most comic work is paid poorly and on a contractual basis - that same writer would be better off trying to write literally anything else for magnitudes more money. A lot of numbers get thrown around but very few of them are over $50,000/year - and that's assuming the person works all year round (as opposed to having 3 months off between two projects). In 2019, this is very easy because there are 5 new super hero movies and 7 new super hero shows coming out each year, every year, for the last ten years until forever.

This also creates a ton of turnover in the companies which makes it very hard to create very long story lines, because the different writers will want to do different things and they will do them. Even if Magneto retired in the comics, we know as comic book readers that he isn't really retired because when they get a new writer (in like 3 months) you'll get a "The Return of Mageneto" arc. Even if he fucking died, they'd have some retcon where young Magneto gets sent forward through time to present day and does the same shit.

You might think "well create a new character then" - without talented writers this is how you find shit like Goddess Mode un-ironically on store shelves, literal tumblr-tier fanfiction turned into a comicbook. It was basically dead-on-arrival and they were just fishing for some type of controversy by hiring on a writer who was a controversy magnet and couldn't even get that going. If you have talent, there's really no reason to sign on with a studio as they really can't help you all that much - which is why there's been a large push to kickstarter/gofundme/whatever.

On top of all of that, problem #2 is just that comic books aren't that popular and will never be again. The same way newspapers have fallen by the wayside at the hands of television and internet journalism - comics have lost major ground to television and internet entertainment. A lot of "traditional" nerd hobbies have transitioned to online spaces - you can play Magic The Gathering, Dungeons and Dragons, or whatever other nerd shit online which is very bad for hobby shops - but for comics it means less traffic and space to sell comics. A lot of what would be considered "casual comic fans" are content watching the 6 movies and 7 shows a year and never touching a comic book again (or playing the video games, or whatever). A book, even an illustrated book, is a very inefficient way to tell a story with all of the technology advances.

There is a whole collection of problems, I could probably go to #20 on my list but it's already a lot of words - but at the end of the day the problem that is always going to exists is simply "are these even worth making over a movie/tv show/video game/whatever else" and the answer is typically "No, not really".
 

Garm

kiwifarms.net
The main, #1 problem with comics right now is that it simply isn't an industry that draws in talent and arguably never was.

Writing a "good" comic is nearly impossible in this day and age - any existing character comes with piles of lore baggage piled up across a number of years (Superman came out in 1939 for example) and comes saddled with demands/conditions from numerous people in the company - sometimes multiple different committees about what that character can and can not do. These restrictions are usually super heavy and make an already hard task nearly impossible.

Sure, a talented writer could, possibly, jump through all of the hoops and still create an entertaining story. It has been done a few times before but ultimately there isn't much money in it. Most comic work is paid poorly and on a contractual basis - that same writer would be better off trying to write literally anything else for magnitudes more money. A lot of numbers get thrown around but very few of them are over $50,000/year - and that's assuming the person works all year round (as opposed to having 3 months off between two projects). In 2019, this is very easy because there are 5 new super hero movies and 7 new super hero shows coming out each year, every year, for the last ten years until forever.

This also creates a ton of turnover in the companies which makes it very hard to create very long story lines, because the different writers will want to do different things and they will do them. Even if Magneto retired in the comics, we know as comic book readers that he isn't really retired because when they get a new writer (in like 3 months) you'll get a "The Return of Mageneto" arc. Even if he fucking died, they'd have some retcon where young Magneto gets sent forward through time to present day and does the same shit.

You might think "well create a new character then" - without talented writers this is how you find shit like Goddess Mode un-ironically on store shelves, literal tumblr-tier fanfiction turned into a comicbook. It was basically dead-on-arrival and they were just fishing for some type of controversy by hiring on a writer who was a controversy magnet and couldn't even get that going. If you have talent, there's really no reason to sign on with a studio as they really can't help you all that much - which is why there's been a large push to kickstarter/gofundme/whatever.

On top of all of that, problem #2 is just that comic books aren't that popular and will never be again. The same way newspapers have fallen by the wayside at the hands of television and internet journalism - comics have lost major ground to television and internet entertainment. A lot of "traditional" nerd hobbies have transitioned to online spaces - you can play Magic The Gathering, Dungeons and Dragons, or whatever other nerd shit online which is very bad for hobby shops - but for comics it means less traffic and space to sell comics. A lot of what would be considered "casual comic fans" are content watching the 6 movies and 7 shows a year and never touching a comic book again (or playing the video games, or whatever). A book, even an illustrated book, is a very inefficient way to tell a story with all of the technology advances.

There is a whole collection of problems, I could probably go to #20 on my list but it's already a lot of words - but at the end of the day the problem that is always going to exists is simply "are these even worth making over a movie/tv show/video game/whatever else" and the answer is typically "No, not really".
That was a good recap.

Apparently the comics industry is a Gordian Knot and has no simple fixes.

Thank you.
 

Agent Wet

Draw me like I'm one of your french girls
kiwifarms.net
The main, #1 problem with comics right now is that it simply isn't an industry that draws in talent and arguably never was.

Writing a "good" comic is nearly impossible in this day and age - any existing character comes with piles of lore baggage piled up across a number of years (Superman came out in 1939 for example) and comes saddled with demands/conditions from numerous people in the company - sometimes multiple different committees about what that character can and can not do. These restrictions are usually super heavy and make an already hard task nearly impossible.

Sure, a talented writer could, possibly, jump through all of the hoops and still create an entertaining story. It has been done a few times before but ultimately there isn't much money in it. Most comic work is paid poorly and on a contractual basis - that same writer would be better off trying to write literally anything else for magnitudes more money. A lot of numbers get thrown around but very few of them are over $50,000/year - and that's assuming the person works all year round (as opposed to having 3 months off between two projects). In 2019, this is very easy because there are 5 new super hero movies and 7 new super hero shows coming out each year, every year, for the last ten years until forever.

This also creates a ton of turnover in the companies which makes it very hard to create very long story lines, because the different writers will want to do different things and they will do them. Even if Magneto retired in the comics, we know as comic book readers that he isn't really retired because when they get a new writer (in like 3 months) you'll get a "The Return of Mageneto" arc. Even if he fucking died, they'd have some retcon where young Magneto gets sent forward through time to present day and does the same shit.

You might think "well create a new character then" - without talented writers this is how you find shit like Goddess Mode un-ironically on store shelves, literal tumblr-tier fanfiction turned into a comicbook. It was basically dead-on-arrival and they were just fishing for some type of controversy by hiring on a writer who was a controversy magnet and couldn't even get that going. If you have talent, there's really no reason to sign on with a studio as they really can't help you all that much - which is why there's been a large push to kickstarter/gofundme/whatever.

On top of all of that, problem #2 is just that comic books aren't that popular and will never be again. The same way newspapers have fallen by the wayside at the hands of television and internet journalism - comics have lost major ground to television and internet entertainment. A lot of "traditional" nerd hobbies have transitioned to online spaces - you can play Magic The Gathering, Dungeons and Dragons, or whatever other nerd shit online which is very bad for hobby shops - but for comics it means less traffic and space to sell comics. A lot of what would be considered "casual comic fans" are content watching the 6 movies and 7 shows a year and never touching a comic book again (or playing the video games, or whatever). A book, even an illustrated book, is a very inefficient way to tell a story with all of the technology advances.

There is a whole collection of problems, I could probably go to #20 on my list but it's already a lot of words - but at the end of the day the problem that is always going to exists is simply "are these even worth making over a movie/tv show/video game/whatever else" and the answer is typically "No, not really".
So basically most if not the entire industry is fucked if there is no effort between the companies themselves, artist, writers, and store owners to help fix it even that is unlikely.
 

Tanner Glass

kiwifarms.net
So basically most if not the entire industry is fucked if there is no effort between the companies themselves, artist, writers, and store owners to help fix it even that is unlikely.
In my opinion, at least. I would say the industry is fucked just because the companies don't really care about the industry moving forward. Disney bought Marvel primarily as a place to mine characters/intellectual properties for movies, which made them roughly $15 billion dollars in the last ten years. Comic books themselves have no where near that kind of potential.

DC is largely just chasing Marvel Studios with their own "shared cinematic universe" but they've had some movie hits as well, and we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars here.

By comparison, the entire comic book industry generated roughly 400 million in sales (note : not profit) for the entire calendar year of 2018. You may see people claim "It was actually 1.1 billion" but I'm purposely not counting the 635 million dollars generated by "Graphic Novels" (which are Manga and not really the same industry).

Let's say for the sake of argument that all 400 million the comic book industry made was profit.

Avengers : Endgame (one of three movies this year) made 3 billion dollars by itself, more money then the entire comic industry (DC, Marvel, and all other studios) would make in seven years combined. Seven other "MCU" movies have grossed a billion dollars or more and they're able to get three of these each year out the door. This is also just the "box" office and doesn't account for however many people buy the home releases, which probably adds up to another sizable sum of money.

There is no "easy" fix for the comics industry - but there are a shocking large number of things that they could easily try (example - investing some of that giant pile of movie money back into the comics industry to hire and RETAIN talent long term like the movie studios does for actors/writers/etc) that they just don't do because they don't seem to care.
 

CheezzyMach

Superior Tentacle Rapist
kiwifarms.net
The main, #1 problem with comics right now is that it simply isn't an industry that draws in talent and arguably never was.

Writing a "good" comic is nearly impossible in this day and age - any existing character comes with piles of lore baggage piled up across a number of years (Superman came out in 1939 for example) and comes saddled with demands/conditions from numerous people in the company - sometimes multiple different committees about what that character can and can not do. These restrictions are usually super heavy and make an already hard task nearly impossible.

Sure, a talented writer could, possibly, jump through all of the hoops and still create an entertaining story. It has been done a few times before but ultimately there isn't much money in it. Most comic work is paid poorly and on a contractual basis - that same writer would be better off trying to write literally anything else for magnitudes more money. A lot of numbers get thrown around but very few of them are over $50,000/year - and that's assuming the person works all year round (as opposed to having 3 months off between two projects). In 2019, this is very easy because there are 5 new super hero movies and 7 new super hero shows coming out each year, every year, for the last ten years until forever.

This also creates a ton of turnover in the companies which makes it very hard to create very long story lines, because the different writers will want to do different things and they will do them. Even if Magneto retired in the comics, we know as comic book readers that he isn't really retired because when they get a new writer (in like 3 months) you'll get a "The Return of Mageneto" arc. Even if he fucking died, they'd have some retcon where young Magneto gets sent forward through time to present day and does the same shit.

You might think "well create a new character then" - without talented writers this is how you find shit like Goddess Mode un-ironically on store shelves, literal tumblr-tier fanfiction turned into a comicbook. It was basically dead-on-arrival and they were just fishing for some type of controversy by hiring on a writer who was a controversy magnet and couldn't even get that going. If you have talent, there's really no reason to sign on with a studio as they really can't help you all that much - which is why there's been a large push to kickstarter/gofundme/whatever.

On top of all of that, problem #2 is just that comic books aren't that popular and will never be again. The same way newspapers have fallen by the wayside at the hands of television and internet journalism - comics have lost major ground to television and internet entertainment. A lot of "traditional" nerd hobbies have transitioned to online spaces - you can play Magic The Gathering, Dungeons and Dragons, or whatever other nerd shit online which is very bad for hobby shops - but for comics it means less traffic and space to sell comics. A lot of what would be considered "casual comic fans" are content watching the 6 movies and 7 shows a year and never touching a comic book again (or playing the video games, or whatever). A book, even an illustrated book, is a very inefficient way to tell a story with all of the technology advances.

There is a whole collection of problems, I could probably go to #20 on my list but it's already a lot of words - but at the end of the day the problem that is always going to exists is simply "are these even worth making over a movie/tv show/video game/whatever else" and the answer is typically "No, not really".
Eh I disagree in my view the biggest issue with comics is they've largely abandoned the child market.

Comics used to be all ages but ever since the 90s kids have been steadily pushed out in favor of adult collectors and pretentious hipsters * and as a consequence comics have been forced into specialized hobby shops an endangered species in this modern digital age where you can buy almost anything from Amazon *.

My LCS brought this up, parents regularly come in saying their kid likes superheroes and they're looking for a comic and he can't recommend anything on the shelf because it's all targeted towards older folks.

I think the price issue is very overstated a pack of trading cards cost the same as an issue of Spider-Man and MTG is booming for Hasbro last I heard.

Manga and paperbacks are still selling as well so I don't think it's a "print is obsolete" issue like with newspapers either.
 
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