The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

[Considered HARMful]

Nothing will function if you don't allow it, with the downside of you having to allow most thing which you want to run [...]

This is not a bug or design deficiency, it's a highly desirable feature.

Note: not an Arch user.

 

[Australianbirdfruit]

This is not a bug or design deficiency, it's a highly desirable feature.

Note: not an Arch user.

That's exactly what I meant!

 

[3119967d0c]

I like this Theo de Raadt already, yet I've now read up slightly on some criticism of the OpenBSD as best as I can understand them. I reckon no OS is free from bugs pertaining to security, and that much of it mostly revolves around the innate autism of programmers in general, yet I'm curious to know what brand of Linux you use, and why? It'd be interesting information for many reason, if not only for comparisons sake.

He sounds quite based indeed. Perhaps this is a common trait in many white people who grow up in South Africa? I wonder what happened to Linus Torvalds for him to fold so completely in regards to the insane Terms of Conduct that was put forward in the Linux community some years ago, by the way, given his history of being anything but a pushover? Regardless, I think I'll give OpenBSD a try!

For the sake of balance, here is a view from one (former) OpenBSD developer:

I was a long-time OpenBSD user since the 3.1 days, and cut my teeth on Unix development there. I was attracted by its focus on security and conscientious coding practices. I was happy through the early 4.x days, but the more I got involved in developing for OpenBSD the more I was dissuaded from doing so.

Part of the issue was this focus on security. After I began to use OpenBSD at home and at work in earnest, I realized that it was limited in hardware support compared to other operating systems. I purchased a new workstation and portable within a year of each other, and both times came to some unhappy realizations about OpenBSD support.

I began to seriously look at Linux and FreeBSD at this point, knowing hardware support was much more robust. (I had also looked at NetBSD, but even though it booted on nearly everything, driver support was anemic.) I started to dual-boot FreeBSD on my workstation, and spent more and more time there. But it wasn't only hardware support that pushed me away from OpenBSD.

The FreeBSD development model is, to say the least, more sensible. Like I said, the more I got involved with OpenBSD development the more I was turned away, and that was mostly due to the project leader's attitude. During the run-up to OpenBSD 4.2, Theo de Raadt had been in a couple highly-publicized arguments with Linux developers, rubbing a ton of people the wrong way.

What many don't understand is that this was not an isolated incident. Try being an OpenBSD developer! These kind of scathing verbal assaults happened all of the time on the mailing lists. I was—and still am, actually—unsure whether Theo doesn't give a shit due to some philosophical stance, or can't help it due to something like Asperger syndrome. In either case, he typically drags anyone he disagrees with over the coals, all while telling them to stop taking it personally.

I wish Theo had taken some of his own advice. I believe he has hurt the OpenBSD platform more than he has helped it, and I also firmly believe that hardware support in OpenBSD sucks not because of code auditing practices or security focus, but because Theo has either scared or purposefully chased away developers.

Long-time OpenBSD developers might migrate to FreeBSD or Darwin; newbies might try for Linux instead. Those who taste the de Raadt wrath, however, always run in the end. A friend of mine once incurred his ire by asking the wrong question at the wrong time, and Theo de Raadt hacked his router and remotely remapped his keyboard!

This is abuse, plain and simple, and Theo's relationship with his developers is abusive. I feel bad for anyone who has to engage him in real life, and fear something Reiser-like happening in the future. This controlling, manipulative attitude coupled with periodic violent outbursts indicates a deep-seated mental health issue that has gone unchecked for far too long. If you are an OpenBSD developer, watch your back!

After all this mess, I switched to FreeBSD 7.2 and never looked back. I upgraded to FreeBSD 7.3 and started using FreeBSD 8 as soon as it was in pre-release, and I am eagerly working on FreeBSD 8.1. I feel spoiled now, too, because of the throng of developers devoted to professionally working the FreeBSD platform into something spectacular instead of naggling over trivial matters or admonishing one another.

The thriving FreeBSD ecosystem contrasts sharply with the Jonestown-like atmosphere of OpenBSD. There is also the fact that no one person looms so largely over any other; ego is checked at the door in FreeBSD since the goal is to make a great operating system, not lord over others like David Koresh and a harem of 14-year-old girls.

Feel free to disagree with me or point out counter-examples; I would love to read them now that I have left OpenBSD. I will always have a soft spot in my heart for the little secure operating system even though it leaves me with chills. I sometimes fondly load www.openbsd.org and read the latest release notes and smile wistfully.

It's okay to smile, now that I'm free from OpenBSD.

https://archive.md/fucec#selection-431.0-485.51

 

[Yotsubaaa]

This is not a bug or design deficiency, it's a highly desirable feature.

Note: not an Arch user.

It has its ups and downs. The obvious up is the extra security and such of knowing that anything which happens, happens because you damn well told it to. That minimizes surprises, and makes it so that when things do go wrong, you've got a pretty good idea why and can fix them (or at least you've got a good idea of what to search the ArchWiki for).

There are downsides though. I remember on one of my Arch installs, Firefox would hog 100% of my Internet connection, making all of the other programs that were trying to use the Internet simultaneously laggy and unresponsive. Well, turns out that's a feature too! Don't know what traffic shaping is? Neither do I, and it's on my list of "shit I really don't want to have to learn to configure correctly on my computer, just make it work from the start without me having to even think about it for fuck's sake".

HOWEVER: I haven't noticed this issue on my more recent installs, so it's possible they've added defaults for this (or I just don't notice it anymore).

t. on-again-off-again Arch user (currently 'on-again', but literally in the middle of planning a full system back-up and distro-hop to 'off-again').

 

[Reverend]

Aha, so you work in IT in some capacity? As a consultant or an explicit programmer or some such?

I do work in and around the technical sector of various organizations with my PARTICULAR set of skills with a team of some of the brightest , intelligent, and autistic folks I know. We will save the world one day.

 

[Australianbirdfruit]

For the sake of balance, here is a view from one (former) OpenBSD developer:

While I'm more than a little bit suspicious over the veracity of the author's claims, and am more inclined to believe that it's all sensationalist bollocks, I'd for the sake of argument say that the main takeaway should be that quite a few people working in the open source IT community are arguably maladjusted, overgrown children. Whether you're talking about an unstable man abusing his co-workers, or a plethora of bugmen and dangerhairs seeking to deliver their wrath of Marx, no side is particularly palpable. One can only hope that Theo de Raadt has bettered himself over the last decade, should the accusations be true. Regardless, I'd rather endorse a man whose staunch opposition against current day wokeness is a defining feature in the presentation of his work philosophy and achievements. I doubt that he's any worse than any given intersectionalist puritan over at FreeBSD anyway. It's only a a plus if he's anything like Terry A. Davis, really. Some people need to learn how to install an OS properly, and do it like a white man would. If de Raadt has to remind them of this, then all the better.

I do work in and around the technical sector of various organizations with my PARTICULAR set of skills with a team of some of the brightest , intelligent, and autistic folks I know. We will save the world one day.

Rock on. Best of luck in your future endeavours!

 

[Dick Justice]

It has its ups and downs. The obvious up is the extra security and such of knowing that anything which happens, happens because you damn well told it to. That minimizes surprises, and makes it so that when things do go wrong, you've got a pretty good idea why and can fix them (or at least you've got a good idea of what to search the ArchWiki for).

There are downsides though. I remember on one of my Arch installs, Firefox would hog 100% of my Internet connection, making all of the other programs that were trying to use the Internet simultaneously laggy and unresponsive. Well, turns out that's a feature too! Don't know what traffic shaping is? Neither do I, and it's on my list of "shit I really don't want to have to learn to configure correctly on my computer, just make it work from the start without me having to even think about it for fuck's sake".
View attachment 1851717
HOWEVER: I haven't noticed this issue on my more recent installs, so it's possible they've added defaults for this (or I just don't notice it anymore).

t. on-again-off-again Arch user (currently 'on-again', but literally in the middle of planning a full system back-up and distro-hop to 'off-again').

This sounds exactly like QoS. I can't believe not only is this even a thing in TYOOL +7, but that it needs two confusing terms now. Reminds me of

Spoiler: the quintessential arch experience

.

 

[Reverend]

While I'm more than a little bit suspicious over the veracity of the author's claims, and am more inclined to believe that it's all sensationalist bollocks, I'd for the sake of argument say that the main takeaway should be that quite a few people working in the open source IT community are arguably maladjusted, overgrown children. Whether you're talking about an unstable man abusing his co-workers, or a plethora of bugmen and dangerhairs seeking to deliver their wrath of Marx, no side is particularly palpable. One can only hope that Theo de Raadt has bettered himself over the last decade, should the accusations be true. Regardless, I'd rather endorse a man whose staunch opposition against current day wokeness is a defining feature in the presentation of his work philosophy and achievements. I doubt that he's any worse than any given intersectionalist puritan over at FreeBSD anyway. It's only a a plus if he's anything like Terry A. Davis, really. Some people need to learn how to install an OS properly, and do it like a white man would. If de Raadt has to remind them of this, then all the better.

Rock on. Best of luck in your future endeavours!

People hate it when others are mean to them on the internet. If you can't take the heat/criticism you won't survive as an OpenBSD developer with it's utterly stringent and nigh inconcievable security demands. I for one welcome a leader like that who makes you want to prove your code is worth being introduced and used.

Thanks for the well wishes, for once I am glad to work with industries that will NEVER be affected by global pandemics.

 

[3119967d0c]

It has its ups and downs. The obvious up is the extra security and such of knowing that anything which happens, happens because you damn well told it to. That minimizes surprises, and makes it so that when things do go wrong, you've got a pretty good idea why and can fix them (or at least you've got a good idea of what to search the ArchWiki for).

There are downsides though. I remember on one of my Arch installs, Firefox would hog 100% of my Internet connection, making all of the other programs that were trying to use the Internet simultaneously laggy and unresponsive. Well, turns out that's a feature too! Don't know what traffic shaping is? Neither do I, and it's on my list of "shit I really don't want to have to learn to configure correctly on my computer, just make it work from the start without me having to even think about it for fuck's sake".
View attachment 1851717
HOWEVER: I haven't noticed this issue on my more recent installs, so it's possible they've added defaults for this (or I just don't notice it anymore).

t. on-again-off-again Arch user (currently 'on-again', but literally in the middle of planning a full system back-up and distro-hop to 'off-again').

For what it's worth, I'm not really aware of any regular desktop OS that would do 'traffic shaping'.. whether in the form you describe, application level QOS on your own PC, or something intended to adapt to traffic shaping on your DSL/cable/fiber connection- some sort of automatic tuning of download and upload speeds to maximise throughput while minimizing latency (and I suspect that would be hard to create).

While I'm more than a little bit suspicious over the veracity of the author's claims, and am more inclined to believe that it's all sensationalist bollocks, I'd for the sake of argument say that the main takeaway should be that quite a few people working in the open source IT community are arguably maladjusted, overgrown children. Whether you're talking about an unstable man abusing his co-workers, or a plethora of bugmen and dangerhairs seeking to deliver their wrath of Marx, no side is particularly palpable. One can only hope that Theo de Raadt has bettered himself over the last decade, should the accusations be true. Regardless, I'd rather endorse a man whose staunch opposition against current day wokeness is a defining feature in the presentation of his work philosophy and achievements. I doubt that he's any worse than any given intersectionalist puritan over at FreeBSD anyway. It's only a a plus if he's anything like Terry A. Davis, really. Some people need to learn how to install an OS properly, and do it like a white man would. If de Raadt has to remind them of this, then all the better.

Rock on. Best of luck in your future endeavours!

Believe what you want to believe. Other former OpenBSD adherents have come forward with even more serious accusations.

Why I Abandoned OpenBSD and Why You Should Too…​

Dear OpenBSD developers and users:
Regretfully, I have decided to abandon OpenBSD and thought I would share my reasoning with this list. I thought the 4th of July was a good date to do so since my reasons address national security implications. As a group of people who take development, security, and privacy seriously, I know you will want to know why I made the drastic decision to abandon OpenBSD and never look back.

I'm sure we've all heard of PRISM by now, the user-friendly name of the United States Federal Government's massive civilian and resident spying program otherwise known as US-984XN. PRISM is certainly bad enough of its own accord, but it's how PRISM works, and the pattern of behavior found in OpenBSD development, that was the tipping point for my use of OpenBSD.

And we all know Theo de Raadt, OpenBSD generalissimo of much infamy. After being fired from the NetBSD team, Theo forked the code and started OpenBSD. He's been pretty much solely responsible for development of OpenBSD over the years, taking volunteer code as he sees fit. He also has final say over security audits in the operating system, something that turns out to be very important.

I was prepping to migrate the whole of our shop, a regional ISP in the United States of America, to OpenBSD 5.3 when the news broke: CBS News reporter Sharyl Attkisson claimed, during a live radio interview, that she had been dealing with suspicious computer and phone issues. Check out this snippet from the full transcript of the interview. One line in particular trashed my plans for the OpenBSD upgrade:

Well, I have been, as I said, pursuing an issue for a long time now — much longer than you’ve been hearing about this in the news — with some compromising of my computer systems in my house — my personal computer systems as well as my work computer systems. I thought they were immune to being compromised — because they all ran OpenBSD — but I guess I was wrong. So, we’re digging into that and just not ready to say much more right now, but I am concerned.

Since that interview in May, I've watched story after story of direct server access, PRISM, and NSA spying and connected some dots. For example, consider the accusations that the FBI had been accused of planting backdoors in OpenBSD's IPSEC in December of 2012, and that the accusations later proved true. The two scandals broke 18 only months apart.

Consider that PRISM allows the United States Federal Government to directly access the servers of virtually any company doing online business, including tech giants like Apple, Facebook, Google, and Microsoft. But those same tech giants deny complicity. I'm sure we all agree that personal privacy is beyond the scope of private enterprise, but let's assume their denials are true. Then connect more dots.

OpenBSD has shipped on over half of all network devices, including things like routers, switches, gateways, and servers, for the last six years. The current estimated number of OpenBSD installations sits at over 350 million devices, comprising an almost ubiquitous presence of OpenBSD in networks worldwide.

Even if no corporation offers the United State Federal Government direct access to its servers through PRISM, OpenBSD offers that same access through the presence of its backdoors.

There it is. Let it sink in. Words like Gestapo and Stasi and KGB come to mind. OpenBSD is part and parcel to the United States Federal Government's program to spy on its own citizens through bodies like the NSA and FBI and has been since the FBI paid for backdoors in IPSEC about a dozen years ago.

Yesterday, I told the company that we must migrate all our services from OpenBSD to something else because the risk to our customers' privacy and security is simply unacceptable. Theo de Raadt may seem like some kind of guard dog of security, but he's really just a little bitch bought and sold by the United State Federal Government.

The kicker is that Theo denies anything suggesting that OpenBSD is less than perfect at security, as if he's personally offended by the mere suggestion. He routinely attacks developers and enthusiasts for simply asking questions. Why so touchy, Theo? Could it be because you're complicit in the biggest citizen spying program ever run in the history of the world?!

Today, be a true patriot to the ideals of personal privacy and public liberty: prevent and reject any and all use of OpenBSD.

Happy 4th of July.

https://archive.vn/jBQ2F#selection-363.0-473.18

 

[Yotsubaaa]

For what it's worth, I'm not really aware of any regular desktop OS that would do 'traffic shaping'.. whether in the form you describe, application level QOS on your own PC, or something intended to adapt to traffic shaping on your DSL/cable/fiber connection- some sort of automatic tuning of download and upload speeds to maximise throughput while minimizing latency (and I suspect that would be hard to create).

Really? Every other OS I've used (e.g. the more 'basic bitch' Linux distros, Windows and Mac OSX) all seem to do what I want, where what I want is "Okay, so I have Firefox open, and I'm also downloading torrents in the background, and I have Slack/Discord/etc open too all at the same time, now everyone play nice." Like I literally didn't even realize it was something I had to care about until that one time I was running Arch and it didn't happen.

(Informative articles about OpenBSD though, by the way.)

 

[Jones McCann]

Finally said fuck Microsoft and switched to Ubuntu. I'm dual-booting with Windows still because my friends have Xbox and you pretty much need it for crossplay.

I must say at first I was kind of not feeling it because i had some issues and had to reinstall, but after using it for a few hours I'm loving it. I'm having a lot of fun learning how to do things again, plus using the terminal just feels better. The settings are simple and intuative, something Microsoft used to have before 8. I also love starting my OS and its just there, empty and waiting; not with 23 program starting up automatically that you didn't fucking want.

No more shitty bloatware, ads baked into the UI, forced updates that take 30 minutes. Even reinstalling Windows was a fucking pain, they force you to sign into your Microsoft account to even install the damn OS. Plus theres ads DURING the install. That really gets me in the mood to tinker with their shit tier UX. I'm never going back to that shit.

 

[Ronnie McNutt]

ive installed gentoo a while back and its not as hard to install, you just need patience for your packages to emerge
im fine with it, currently using openbox with xfce4 panel but i had some problems like trying to install ppp just fails because it failed verification, other than that its cool

 

[NumberingYourState]

Finally said fuck Microsoft and switched to Ubuntu. I'm dual-booting with Windows still because my friends have Xbox and you pretty much need it for crossplay.

I must say at first I was kind of not feeling it because i had some issues and had to reinstall, but after using it for a few hours I'm loving it. I'm having a lot of fun learning how to do things again, plus using the terminal just feels better. The settings are simple and intuative, something Microsoft used to have before 8. I also love starting my OS and its just there, empty and waiting; not with 23 program starting up automatically that you didn't fucking want.

No more shitty bloatware, ads baked into the UI, forced updates that take 30 minutes. Even reinstalling Windows was a fucking pain, they force you to sign into your Microsoft account to even install the damn OS. Plus theres ads DURING the install. That really gets me in the mood to tinker with their shit tier UX. I'm never going back to that shit.

My daily desktop TwisterOS being a heavily customized Raspberry Pi OS (Debian) derivative comes with a ton of preinstalled software, yet doesn't chug like Windows does on equally low power hardware. It has all these casual goodies but still encourages you to use Linux as it's intended. What's better is it features eight custom themes, three of which emulate legacy Windows OS GUIs, excluding the associated bottlenecks for low end hardware.

Imagine having a Windows XP environment that isn't total shit. What a concept.

 

[Octane]

Anyone else LTS-pilled here? Currently running Uboobtu 18.04 on my shitbox. The words "enterprise-grade stability" give me a boner

 

[The Real SVP]

The words "enterprise-grade stability" give me a boner

That's why my home server runs debian stable. Not having to deal with pointless "updates" breaking my shit is worth much more to me than running the newest software.

 

[BootlegPopeye]

After the Brendan Eich fiasco a few years ago, I had a frightening thought - could the same sort of dangerhair assholes ever push out Linus? Yes, his politics are way different than Eich's, and the kernel is way more important than Firefox ever could even dream of so it isn't a perfect analogy, but still. I have seen some gripes here and there that he isn't enough of an 'activist' for alot of the Open Source types taste.

 

[Rozzy]

I find youtube playback more bearable in VLC. Just open the Youtube link as a network stream.

Does YouTube in VLC still work without having to jump through hoops?

I find VLC is much more CPU efficient at playing video than a web browser whether it be Firefox or Chromium.

 

[protomartyr]

I'm inheriting a Lenovo laptop in the near future and I'm planning on running Linux on it. I used to be a little more into tech as a kid and I used Ubuntu as a daily driver for a while, but I've been on proprietary shit for so long I no longer have any idea what's good. I've seen Manjaro recommended as a first, idiot-proof OS but I'm curious what you guys would recommend?

It apparently has a touchscreen, which I'm not mad about but if it has the technology I'd like to have the option of using it if possible. In your guys' experience do touch controls tend to function well on Linux?

Forgive the amateur hour questions, I'm coming off MacOS so I'm medically retarded.

 

[Octane]

I'm inheriting a Lenovo laptop in the near future and I'm planning on running Linux on it. I used to be a little more into tech as a kid and I used Ubuntu as a daily driver for a while, but I've been on proprietary shit for so long I no longer have any idea what's good. I've seen Manjaro recommended as a first, idiot-proof OS but I'm curious what you guys would recommend?

It apparently has a touchscreen, which I'm not mad about but if it has the technology I'd like to have the option of using it if possible. In your guys' experience do touch controls tend to function well on Linux?

Forgive the amateur hour questions, I'm coming off MacOS so I'm medically retarded.

For the most part things like touchscreens and pens tend to work if you're using any non-Stallmanite distro.

 

[Octane]

Are there any lightweight DEs that don't tear like shit?
was considering MATE or CDE, but both of those are a bit buggy