YABookgate -

SpeedOSanicRee

Gotta Scroll Fast
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I'd like to see this person try to write her own novel (it's a "not like other girls UwU" enby) only to end up facing the exact same type of NOT WOKE ENOUGH criticism that she directs towards others.
I'd love to see them write a book, period. It seems that much of the time the people screeching the most about this shit aren't even authors. Like, you think you can do it better? Go ahead. You write a book 'properly' and get it published with zero outcry and then we'll talk.
 

Kari Kamiya

"I beat her up, so I gave her a cuck-cup."
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I almost missed "SJW" in the title because Mary Sues has been a blight on literature since forever, but it's been taken notice of since Star Trek fanzines were a thing. And the reason there are so many Mary Sues is because of amateur writing (most common in fan fiction, which is where Mary Sues were first "recorded" or at least labeled), and self-powering fantasy combined with amateur writing. Fangirls want to be with their favorite fictional character(s), maybe even want to fuck them because no one else will love them in real life, but they have no other outlet to do it than in fanfiction, and quality control is non-existent.

SJWs never outgrew of their fanfiction days and never learned to take criticism without throwing bitchfits. It's the same old song and dance just in a different coat of paint and it's become much more malicious.

(I don't have the time, so I'll check the video later to see if I hit all the same points or missed by a long shot.)
 

SpeedOSanicRee

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This describes 90% of YA protagonists
I agree with that video. SJW Mary Sues are a bit different from standard ones. And that slight difference makes them worse somehow.
I almost missed "SJW" in the title because Mary Sues has been a blight on literature since forever, but it's been taken notice of since Star Trek fanzines were a thing. And the reason there are so many Mary Sues is because of amateur writing (most common in fan fiction, which is where Mary Sues were first "recorded" or at least labeled), and self-powering fantasy combined with amateur writing. Fangirls want to be with their favorite fictional character(s), maybe even want to fuck them because no one else will love them in real life, but they have no other outlet to do it than in fanfiction, and quality control is non-existent.
Honestly, I feel like Mary Sues are a tie for the worst character archetype, the other being the exact opposite--a villain with zero redeeming qualities. Then neither character is relatable and instead of developing an attachment, you just want to throw the book away.

A Mary Sue exists mainly as one thing: a self-insert wish fulfillment character. The thing these writers don't understand is that you can't just insert some random character into the story to live vicariously through. Even if you have an original story idea and it's not just some fanfic with the serial numbers filed off, having a character with no real flaws is going to kill the story. Look at something like Twilight. I almost guarantee you the biggest reason it was hated was the two main characters being Mary Sues. It doesn't make for good or relatable writing. It just makes for hot garbage. The fact that so many of the stories with Mary Sues, esp SJW ones, were written by women who are older than 13 is just plain sad.
 

Piga Dgrifm

Where are those good old fashioned values?
True & Honest Fan
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I've seen a few posts stating that calling a character a Mary Sue is muh soggy knees, that anyone who uses the term to criticize something is trying to silence women, and that Mary Sues are actually good and empowering because patriarchy.
 

Someone in a Tree

It's the ripple, not the sea that is happening
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I've seen a few posts stating that calling a character a Mary Sue is muh soggy knees, that anyone who uses the term to criticize something is trying to silence women, and that Mary Sues are actually good and empowering because patriarchy.
People who feel that way are simple thinkers who don't like to be challenged when they read, which is why they read shit intended for teenagers
 

SpeedOSanicRee

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I've seen a few posts stating that calling a character a Mary Sue is muh soggy knees, that anyone who uses the term to criticize something is trying to silence women, and that Mary Sues are actually good and empowering because patriarchy.
Bullshit. There is a HUGE difference between a strong female lead and a female lead who is just there as a self-insert wet dream.
People who feel that way are simple thinkers who don't like to be challenged when they read, which is why they read shit intended for teenagers
This. To be honest, it does take some level of complex thinking to be able to really connect to a protagonist who is deeply flawed. When you have this protagonist who is broken and isn't perfect, it can be harder to sympathize. I think a good novel is the type where both the antagonist and protagonist have good and bad qualities, sometimes even to the extent that the 'unlikable narrator' trope comes in. It really makes you think. Something these people can't seem to do. It's much easier to just get behind a character with zero flaws beyond maybe not knowing how perfect they are.
 

Marco Fucko

Welcome to the fruit fields.
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It's much easier to just get behind a character with zero flaws beyond maybe not knowing how perfect they are.
It really does suck that that's the case. It's something special when you see yourself in a character, but it isn't a virtue like humility or kindness. The first time around you might not even really know what the feeling is, but you mull it over and understand that there is this darker side to you, and this shitty protagonist or sympathetic villain has a piece of themselves that you are familiar with.

But no, thinking is bad. It gives me a headache.
 

SpeedOSanicRee

Gotta Scroll Fast
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It really does suck that that's the case. It's something special when you see yourself in a character, but it isn't a virtue like humility or kindness. The first time around you might not even really know what the feeling is, but you mull it over and understand that there is this darker side to you, and this shitty protagonist or sympathetic villain has a piece of themselves that you are familiar with.

But no, thinking is bad. It gives me a headache.
This is probably why so many YA characters are a blank slate. To bring up Twilight again, Bella Swan was purposely barely described. It's so that people can insert themselves. Way easier to do when characters are so vague that almost anyone can relate to the protagonist.

When you throw in a curveball, like an unlikable narrator or a villain who is morally ambiguous, it requires more brain power and who wants that, amirite?
 

Next Task

True & Honest Fan
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Honestly, I feel like Mary Sues are a tie for the worst character archetype, the other being the exact opposite--a villain with zero redeeming qualities.
Honestly though, if one were to think about writing a book where a version of one of many of our lolcows were the villain, they'd come across as exactly that.

Imagine a book with Jake Alley as the villain. To not meet that archetype, you'd actually have to write him as a better person than he is. And he's a milder example of some of the more horrific cows who really are that bad.
 

SpeedOSanicRee

Gotta Scroll Fast
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Honestly though, if one were to think about writing a book where a version of one of many of our lolcows were the villain, they'd come across as exactly that.

Imagine a book with Jake Alley as the villain. To not meet that archetype, you'd actually have to write him as a better person than he is. And he's a milder example of some of the more horrific cows who really are that bad.
Yeah, but I personally couldn't handle reading something like that. I know some could, but I've actually been unable to get into certain movies and TV shows (Once Upon a Time springs to mind) because the villain was so evil just for the sake of being evil. Zero redeeming qualities, no real motivation to be evil other than to just be a psychopath. I don't think I could read a book where the villain is like that. Maybe some can, but I just...couldn't.
 
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Save the Loli

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Honestly, I feel like Mary Sues are a tie for the worst character archetype, the other being the exact opposite--a villain with zero redeeming qualities. Then neither character is relatable and instead of developing an attachment, you just want to throw the book away.
I disagree. There's good stories where the villain is an absolutely irredeemable monster. It's not an inherently bad archetype. A Mary Sue on the other hand can never be played straight. The only reason to ever write one is as a parody of the concept (like Mary Sue herself),
I've seen a few posts stating that calling a character a Mary Sue is muh soggy knees, that anyone who uses the term to criticize something is trying to silence women, and that Mary Sues are actually good and empowering because patriarchy.
Probably because their precious characters keep getting called out for being Mary Sues. I never once heard about the term Mary Sue being sexist until some exceptional thinkpiece article shilling for Disney Star Wars said that calling Rey a Mary Sue was proof of sexism. These people are incapable of taking responsibility for anything, and that includes their shit writing. Their only response is to blame it all on conspiracies of racists and sexists and what not.
 

Maggots on a Train v2

new and improved account
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I'm judging that book by its cover.
756115

Zero skill traced photo, it looks like something off wikihow. They tried to be Patrick Nagel, but had no idea which details to leave off, or which colors to use.
I agree with that video. SJW Mary Sues are a bit different from standard ones. And that slight difference makes them worse somehow.

Honestly, I feel like Mary Sues are a tie for the worst character archetype, the other being the exact opposite--a villain with zero redeeming qualities. Then neither character is relatable and instead of developing an attachment, you just want to throw the book away.

A Mary Sue exists mainly as one thing: a self-insert wish fulfillment character. The thing these writers don't understand is that you can't just insert some random character into the story to live vicariously through. Even if you have an original story idea and it's not just some fanfic with the serial numbers filed off, having a character with no real flaws is going to kill the story. Look at something like Twilight. I almost guarantee you the biggest reason it was hated was the two main characters being Mary Sues. It doesn't make for good or relatable writing. It just makes for hot garbage. The fact that so many of the stories with Mary Sues, esp SJW ones, were written by women who are older than 13 is just plain sad.
It still amazes me that people past middle school think anybody wants to read a let's play of them driving a character around in god mode.
 

Krimjob

Resident God-Emperor
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Here’s a decent article as to why modern literature, especially Young Adult, sucks for the most part:
Eh, I disagree. I mean sure there is tons of bad stuff, but keep in mind that writing is more open than even now with the interwebz. It goes without saying that the ratio becomes a bit fucked with that. There is still some great stuff being published.

YA has gone down tho, but then again, it was always bad. After all, YA was never meant to be deeply intellectual in the first place. It's emotional masturbation for the most part.

At the same time, Haruki Murakami is pretty YA'ish and his work is top notch. Not entirely sure if his work counts as YA tho, but it's definitely aimed at that crowd with some of his work.

At the end of the day, there has always been few good writers. On top of that, most intellectual writers don't get recognized for decades most of the time. Nowadays a lot of writers want to provide for themselves so putting out some trash is usually the way to do it.

In my opinion a lot of this stems from the media and "critics" that trash anything original. If you try something new and a bit "odd" you get trashed and won't receive any hype. Write something LBTQ or some trash like JK Rowling and you'll get tons of aid from the mass media. Critics will still burn you tho, those cunts don't like anything that isn't Kafka.
 

SpeedOSanicRee

Gotta Scroll Fast
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Eh, I disagree. I mean sure there is tons of bad stuff, but keep in mind that writing is more open than even now with the interwebz. It goes without saying that the ratio becomes a bit fucked with that. There is still some great stuff being published.
It's usually what's self-published that is garbage. With Kindle Direct/Createspace, you can publish anything you want for free. It's how EL James got popular.
 
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